Results 1 - 13 of 13
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Results from: Notes Author: bartay Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 59166 | ||
Hi kalos, Thanks for your input. I agree. Barry |
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2 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 59165 | ||
Hi Hank, Thanks for your input. I would agree if God is for us who can be against us. If God has chosen us then who can seperate us from the love of God. We could make the decision (free will) to walk away from God, but if he chose us in the first place I doubt that he would allow us to walk away. Barry |
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3 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 59110 | ||
Hi Melanie, I don't quite understand what you mean by backsliding. If God has chosen us, and takes responsibility to keep us, then we cannot backslide. Someone who says they have backsliden have actually self willingly denied the hope of our faith. To backslide really means you were never there in the first place, except in your own self willed mind. Barry |
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4 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58879 | ||
Hi deb If my Father said to me, I have set up a lifestyle here for you and you will be lacking in nothing. You will have peace happiness and a wonderful life. There is one thing however that I don't want you to do, do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good or evil. If you however choose to do so you will be banished from this heavenly place and you will die. Now I had no choice in what my Father had set up for me. I didn't have to say I will obey everything you have asked of me. However, if I wanted to sin and disobey my Father I would have to choose to ignore everything he had done to give me a good life and decide to eat from the tree of good and evil. The free willed choice is sin. Barry |
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5 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58878 | ||
Hi Melanie, In answer to your first question Jesus said you must be born again. Now how are we born again, through our own choice or through God's choice? Jesus said we must be born of the water and the Spirit. How can we choose to do this? (John 3:3) John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. It is obvious from this scripture that God draws those he has chosen to believe. There is no choice involved. He chose those, who he draws, before the foundation of the earth, predestinating them for adoption as sons and daughters of God.. Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Jesus never done or said anything which wasn’t from His Father. He didn’t make choices of whom he would heal, or talk to, or what to talk about. This was all from His Heavenly Father whom he followed without question John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. Jesus’ cried in the Garden of Gethsemene that with God all things are possible so couldn’t he have chosen another way for his plan to be fulfilled, but realising this was what he was asking, for God to change his plan at the last minute, he also acknowledged that through the will of God was the only way the plan could be executed. He wasn’t making a choice, He was saying god’s will must prevail over mans will. Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. Barry |
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6 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58873 | ||
Hi Tim, One cannot choose to obey God, because not obeying means you have freely chosen not to. Perhaps if we see life as something God has created for each person. To see God in charge of each and every situation takes away any responsibility for us to think about. So one doesn't have to free willingly obey God, one only has to follow God, for to not follow God leads to eternal death. If however we decide through free will thinking to not follow God then we sin, and the wages of sin is death. Perhaps we all see God and his word as a joke that will not come to fruition, I am sure the two in the Garden believed that after the Serpent had said, "you will not die." Their deaths were not immediate but were certainly imminent in the future scheme of things. Jesus never done or said anything that did not come from his Heavenly Father first. He was constantly in touch through prayer and belief that all that God had set out to do in his plan for salvation would come to pass. Bartay |
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7 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58748 | ||
If I was wrong I apoligise. However, by the tone of your last note it certainly appeared to be gender slanted rather than holisticly human. The whole free will debate revolves around man being an independant participater in the fight between good and evil. This is not true, either we do what God wants of us or we die being a servant to Satanic law. Jesus when he was tempted by the Devil had no choice to make. Because he was from God he was naturally going to do what God wanted of him. If he did decide to make a choice it would have been to go along with the Devils' temptations. However because he didn't give in to temptation, because he was following God, there was no choice to make. If however he decided by using his own mind, rather than God's scriptures in his word, to succumb to the temptation, then he would have been sinning. Which concludes that free will thinking is sinful because it goes against God's will. |
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8 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58645 | ||
There is no point carrying on with this discussion as it is very apparent that your feminest leanings will cancell out any meaningful discussion | ||||||
9 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58585 | ||
When God formed Adam from the dust of the ground, Adam had no input into whether he was to be formed or not. This was God’s choice entirely. Adam had no free will input into the decision. When Adam was placed into the Garden, this also was God’s choice and Adam had no participation into this decision either. Adam’s sojourn in the Garden was going along splendidly it wasn’t until Eve was made from the bone and flesh of Adam that the wheels began to fall off. Eve decided, through free will thought, that God’s command was something that didn’t need to be heeded to, and so instead she obeyed the promptings of the Serpent. Again this was not a free will decision the actual thoughts for the disobedience came from the Serpent. This was the first step towards being expelled from God’s presence. The second, and final step was Adam also being coerced into using his free willed thinking to obey the woman and disobey God. The scriptures encourage us to be servants or slaves to God and his commands. Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. A servant does not use his own willed thoughts to serve, but does the bidding of him whom he serves. We are not only encouraged to be a servant to God but also to one another. This would seem to persuade against using free will to serve. Eve’s disobedience, in the Garden, was not a free will attempt at using her own mind to sum things up. It was a rebellious act of disobeying God, and allowing the promptings of the Devil (Serpent) to rule in her mind. She had shaken off the servitude to God and his righteousness, and instead chosen to become a servant to Satan. Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? There is only two powers at war in this our world. One is God the other is Satan. Man has no free willed power to shape anything in this world, for him or for others; all influence comes from one or the other of these powers Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. It would appear that so-called free will thinking is another word for rebellion against God and his word. The choice of obeying the Serpent and so disobeying God brings eternal death to those who profess the right. Our freedom in Christ is being a servant, and a servant obeys without choice. 1 Corinthians 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. Barry |
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10 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 58370 | ||
Are you then saying that if Jesus had decided to choose to not die, God's plan for the restoration of his creation would have then failed? I believe that Jesus choice was not a free will decision, it had already been decided what would prevail. Jesus always followed the Fathers commands, and to die was one of those commands. For us to follow Jesus we also must already have this direction, of not my will but yours, implanted within us. This can only be done through the Holy Spirit influencing our wills. Barry |
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11 | Not my will? | Rom 5:6 | bartay | 5793 | ||
If predestination inevitably leads to regeneration, (I imagine you mean rebirth) and belief in Christ. Why then do we have the scripture that many are called but few are chosen? (Matthew 22:14)This would seem to me to be saying that all who are called, (predestined) will not be chosen because of unbelief. We also have those who come to Christ believing they were entitled to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They said, Lord, Lord, we have prophesied, cast out demons, and done many wonderful things in your name. Jesus said, get away from me, I never knew you; depart from me you evildoers bartay |
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12 | How do you know you have the Holy Ghost? | Acts 19:2 | bartay | 5685 | ||
You say; 1) Neither "a close relationship with Him (God)" nor our obedience can save us. We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Rom 3:28; Eph 2:8-9; John 5:24). (Answer) Scripture tells us that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed, and obeyed God. Abraham certainly had a close relationship with God, because God spoke to him, and Abraham obeyed him. (Romans 4:9) Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. God chose us, because he loved us. If this is not a close relationship that God desires from those he chooses, then I do not know what would be? Before we knew God or Jesus, God had already chosen those who would receive the grace to become sons of God. 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Grace is the working of the Holy Spirit in ones life You say; 2) Salvation is conditioned solely on faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times faith, or belief, is stated as THE SINGLE CONDITION in the NT (John 1:12; Acts 16:31). (Answer) The faith needed, to believe in grace to save, was also given by God to those whom he chose to become sons. It is not our measure of faith that brings grace, for it to be so it would cause us to be able to boast in our own achievement of attaining grace through our own self actions. Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. So to believe that my self willed faith in Jesus Christ will save me is not enough. If God has not given the measure of faith to believe, then your faith is not acceptable You say; 3) A close relationship with God and obedience are the RESULT, not the CAUSE of salvation. (Answer) Are you then saying that through some endeavour of our own we can have a close relationship with God which results in salvation. There is nothing we can do to bring about a result of being saved. Shall we say then that the rich young man, who was obedient to the keeping of all the commandments, and so believed he had a close relationship with God, resulted in him being saved? No it didn’t, because the cause for salvation is following the sacrifice for salvation, Jesus Christ. Then there was the ones who believed they were prophesying, casting out demons, and doing many wonderful works, in Jesus name. The result of all their works was not salvation, but condemnation. However, according to your premise, that a close relationship and obedience should have resulted in these people attaining salvation, did not happen. To look for the result rather than the cause, is putting the cart before the horse. Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. The cause for being saved has already been implemented by God, and so no result of man’s endeavour can bring it to fruition. The result of being saved, is righteousness being seen, by the fruits of the Spirit shining forth from the individual. You say; 4) The phrase "living in sin" occurs nowhere in either the KJV, ASV, RSV, NASB, or NKJV. (Answer) Living in sin was not my expression. I was just making the point that if one has been saved, it is saved from sin by Jesus Christ. (Matthew 1:21) To carry on declaring I am a sinner, but I’m saved, is a contradictory statement. If I am saved, what am I saved from if I do not believe my old life of sin has disappeared. Bartay |
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13 | How do you know you have the Holy Ghost? | Acts 19:2 | bartay | 5651 | ||
If you are still living in sin, you have not the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. For to still be a sinner and proclaiming the power of God through His Spirit living within you, is claiming the Spirit is a sinner also. To become “born anew,” is to be born into a new family, the family of God. God becomes our Father, Father in the real sense of the word; we must have a close relationship with Him as we do our own fathers, at some stage of our lives. And this relationship is the basis of, “being born again”; for to be, “saved from our sin”, (Matthew 1:21) which is what Christ came to save us from, and not, “saved in our sin”, which many believe as the truth. The sin, which Christ came to save us from is, being unable to follow God, and His ways, in our own human nature; it is not possible in our own strength to follow God, but He, God, made this possible through the relationship we become to Him, through Jesus; for we must put off of our own fleshy desires, to be self- sufficient, and instead put on the flesh of Jesus, (Galatians 3:27) which makes us rely on God completely, because it is only through this mystery of Spirit, accomplished by God for us, that is obedience to God even unto death. (Hebrews 5:7-10) For obedience is the key of a relationship with God, as Adam and Eve’s story so amply portrays it to us, so as we put to death our old man of sin in sacrifice to God, we are raised up as a new creature of God; for he who is willing to be dead to the old nature of following the Devil, is set free from the penalty of the sin of following Satan and not God. Romans 6:4-8 We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious [power] of the Father, so we too might [habitually] live and behave in newness of life. For if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be [one with Him in sharing] His resurrection [by a new life lived for God]. We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross with Him in order that [our] body [which is the instrument] of sin might be made ineffective and inactive for evil, that we might no longer be the slaves of sin. When we put on the Lord Jesus, (Romans 13-14) we become, in the eyes of God, His only begotten Son, as we are hid in Jesus before God. (Colossians 3:3) bartay |
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