Results 1 - 20 of 23
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: Wlerin Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Parallels to the silver cord, etc. | Eccl 12:6 | Wlerin | 121605 | ||
Thank you both for your informative replies, and for the reminder that not all mysteries need be answered. May the peace of Christ dwell with you, Wlerin |
||||||
2 | 40 Days | Bible general Archive 2 | Wlerin | 121574 | ||
Elijah's time? I do not know what ye mean by this, but I do recall him running, in the strength of two meals, forty days and forty nights to the mountain of God (1 Kings 19:8). However, this is of course after three years and more of being powerfully used by God, including the gathering at Mount Carmel. |
||||||
3 | 40 Days | Bible general Archive 2 | Wlerin | 121572 | ||
What source is there for AD 33? Most sources say AD 29, but that might be based on the assumption that Christ was 33 at his death, and born in 4 BC. ...apparently, according to "The Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels", if 14 Nisan is taken as the date of His crucifixion (assuming that it was the day of Preparation for the Passover, which is what John records) then the possible dates are April 7 AD 30, or April 3 AD 33. Apparently, the AD 33 date is corroborated by "Pilate's changing policies toward the Jews after AD 32". Also, according to the same work, the start of John's ministry in Luke 3:1-3, in the fifteenth year of Tiberius, must have been in AD 29. Since Christ's own ministry began afterwards, AD 30 is not a likely year (at least two Passovers are recorded, the other two in John 2:13 and 6:4, the latter at the feeding of the five thousand. There are also chronological statements in John 4:35, and in 5:1 that seem to necessitate a third passover between these two.) Also, as to His birth, note that He is in both calendars (East and West) held to have been born in winter. He must have been born before 4 BC, when the death of Herod the Great occurred, but as for the specific date of a census, I can find no reference. There were, however, two confluences of planets in the years 7/6 BC, and 5/4 BC, though whether these are related at all to the Star is unknown (and, as the Dictionary pointed out, for the Star to stand over the stable would require something more than natural). Now that I have totally exhausted that work... nothing else I have looked at even tries to describe the reasoning behind the dates, but (usually) gives it as AD 29, which, as pointed out concerning John the Baptist, is impossible. Most of this came from the work quoted. Sorry, I hadn't planned to give so much info, but ye got me curious, and once I found it I had to share. |
||||||
4 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121389 | ||
I have tried to explain what I mean by them being similar despite the difference in a note on Ex 31:3. See msg. 121386 | ||||||
5 | The Holy Spirit working in the OT and NT | Ex 31:3 | Wlerin | 121387 | ||
Now, what can be my point? How are the outpouring in the Old Testament, and those in the New, related? Firstly, in the OT, God put His Spirit upon men to enable them to accomplish a task, in fact a very specific task. In Ex 31:3, it was for building the Tabernacle. In 1 Sam 11:6, it was to deliver a city of Israel from her enemies. In all of the Judges passages, the Spirit came to deliver, to lead, and to teach the sons of Israel, who are God's chosen nation. Now, "remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off were made near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall...that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross..." (Eph 2:12-14,15b-16) And "So then, you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the holy, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit." Also note 3:5-6,12. Now, this idea is propounded in other verses which I have not the time to find (though if others know them, I would be grateful if ye added them). What is the idea? First, a few words from Corinthians: 1 Cor 12:4 There are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. (this applies both to the NT and the OT). :5 There are varieties of ministries (methods of service) but the same Lord, :6 ...varieties of effects...the same God who works all things in all. :7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit FOR THE COMMON GOOD. And, v 8-10 "the same Spirit", v 11 The same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. So then, what is the will of the Spirit? What was His goal then, and His goal now? Now, the point I am attempting to make is that, in Ex 31:3 especially, the Goal of the Spirit's gift was the building, or the edifying (literal meaning), of the Tabernacle. And this Tabernacle was a shadow of the Body of Christ (Heb. 8:5, and also somewhat, 9:1-5 and 10:1). Therefore, this first filling of the Spirit signifies: the Spirit giving wisdom and skill and ability to men in order to build up and edify His Church. This is also made clear in 1 Cor 14, and perhaps elsewhere (I don't have time or space for more research, but I should love more verses, or comments, or corrections). |
||||||
6 | The Holy Spirit working in the OT and NT | Ex 31:3 | Wlerin | 121386 | ||
On the Similarities between the Spirit in the Old Testament and the New. Part 1 (This note was started based on a discussion/dispute elsewhere.) In Ex 31:3, The man who is filled with the Spirit of God is given wisdom and ability to perform a particular task for the purpose of building the Tabernacle. In 1 Sam 16:13, the Spirit of the Lord is said to have come upon David from that day forward. Now, what happened when Saul first received the Spirit of the Lord? (1 Sam 10:6, 9, 10) He prophesied, and was changed into another man. What else did Saul do in the Spirit? (1 Sam 11:6-8) His anger burned greatly, and brought Israel together to fight against the Lord's enemies, to save the city of Jabesh-gilead. More mentions of the Spirit of YHWH (or God) on or in men, - Num. 27:18 (of Joshua), Judg 3:10, 6:34, 11:29, 13:25, 14:6; In Nu 11:24-29, an event is recorded which may be considered a prophecy in action, rather than word: In v 25, "The Lord... took of the Spirit who was upon him [Moses] and placed (Him) [the Spirit] upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them they prophesied. But they did not do it again." Now, here we see perhaps the first shadow of the Joel promise, and of Pentecost, in verse 29: "...would that all the Lord's people were prophets, that the Lord would put His Spirit upon them!" Now then, compare these few examples to the initial NT filling in Acts 2:2-4. Are these at all similar? A noise like a violent rushing wind, and tongues of fire resting on each of those present, following which they all began to speak in tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. They spoke of the mighty deeds of God. And, having been filled with the Spirit, Peter comes forward to speak and explain the gospel (:14-36), including the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Has Peter ever spoken like this before? Not only did he suddenly testify unlike he had ever done before, but all who heard were pierced to the heart (v 37) and many believed. Then, in 4:23-31, the people, in response to the actions of the priests and elders, prayed to God with one accord, requesting to speak His word with all boldness (29), while He extends His hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through His Son's holy Name. When they had prayed, the place were they had gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit to speak the word of God with boldness. Furthermore, note 6:3,7,8,10,15; 7:1-53, 54-55: ...select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.... The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith. And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people....But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.... And fixing their gaze on him, all who were sitting in the Council saw his face like the face of an angel. Then Stephen breaks forth into a great explanation of the gospel, beginning with Abraham, through Moses, Solomon, and then to the coming of the Righteous One, who is Christ. After this, "they were cut to the quick...But being full of the Holy Spirit, he (Stephen) gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." |
||||||
7 | Wlerin do you make other expections? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121361 | ||
Seek in 14:12 - zeteite, from zeteO, to seek, search for, try, attempt, or strive for; want, ask, ask for; demand, require; expect, consider, deliberate, examine. In context I suppose this would be "ask for", but with a more fervent asking than normal. Thus, prayer is seeking in this: pray to interpret (which edifies), seek to abound for the edification of the church. Zealous, and earnestly desire are not so close to seek as I had thought, but the two words do complement each other. |
||||||
8 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121317 | ||
Col. 2:17, Heb. 8:5, Heb. 10:1. Col. 2:16-17 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day, things which are a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Note that all the things mentioned are things prescribed in the Law. Heb 8:5 (of the priests) who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses has been warned when he was about to erect the Tabernacle; for "See," He says, "that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain." Heb. 10:1a For the Law, since it has a shadow of the goods things to come, not the very image of things, can never, by the same sacrifices... Each of these applies only to the Law. However, I think that what I was attempting to say earlier was confused by a poor wording: The Bible contains the Word of God. By this I did not mean that only some of the Bible is God's Word. All of it is, but, the point I wished to make, or rather the idea I wanted to express, is that the Bible is not ALL there is to His Word. This, I have not yet undertaken to prove, nor will I in this thread, therefore, let it be dismissed for the time. |
||||||
9 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121316 | ||
First off, the brackets in the Amplified are basically a sort of in-text commentary, though an uncommonly good one. As for your other point, aye. This born of the Spirit is more than the OT examples, but the OT examples are shadows (Col. 2:17, Heb. 8:5, 10:1) of things to come, thus, while they may not be the thing, yet they are a kind of prophecy of that thing. Er.... but in conclusion, hoping that I have not again mangled my meaning with awkward words, yes, John did not have this new birth. However, the words, at least in English (I don't have the LXX with me, so I can't compare) are the same, "filled with the Spirit of God" However, this statement is qualified, by "in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all craftsmanship." (That being Ex 31:3) |
||||||
10 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121315 | ||
do you refer to verse 31, "But earnestly desire the greater gifts"? Okay...but tongues with interpretation (14:5) is the exception to this. There is not, in 1 Cor 12 nor in 1 Cor 14, a prohibition against seeking to speak with tongues, but rather an exhortation to seek to prophesy, to edify the church. Still, aye, if yer prayers are occupied seeking to prophesy or to interpret, or to teach, or the rest, then ye would have no time to seek for tongues, nor a reason. |
||||||
11 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121305 | ||
Steve, thank you for the verses. I shall have to find a verse in which I can beat this out more thoroughly. Until then...gah, no, until then. | ||||||
12 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121302 | ||
*coughs* maybe I should listen to my own advice and not bring up controversial issues like this, especially when I haven't thought through them nearly enough. However... at some point I will get those verses, and research the history of the doctrine of inerrancy (not that I dispute it, but it carries some baggage along with it, or so it seems to me, this being a personal opinion unfounded in the Word or in any revelation of God). I would like to talk to ye, Hank, about it later, since ye are generally knowledgeable in these issues (in truth, moreso than I, though that is understandable), however, I suppose if so I should probably pick a verse and ask this there... I try to avoid again posting so far off the question. |
||||||
13 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121296 | ||
As for 2 Tim 3:16, certainly. Heb 4:12... ack, I think I may have spoken presumptuously. I will do some more research (to find the verses again, not to find new ones). However, I do admit that half my argument was based on extra-biblical ideas, garnered from Lewis and Barfield, and from their influences. | ||||||
14 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121295 | ||
*eyes "is the word of God"* John 1:1, 14 The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us... John 5:39 - You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify of Me; an you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. Certainly the authority and inspiration of the written word is essential, and I agree. But the Word is not written, it is Christ, and He is Spirit and Life. but, still, Rom. 7:6 we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. (and the remainder of that chapter.) 2 Cor 3:6 adequate servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Rev 19:13 His name is called The Word of God. There are many more passages, including one I could not find in which it is said that, "the word is breath (pneuma) and it is life." Now, there are many more verses, but I think ye should be hard pressed to find one that calls the Bible the Word of God. I haven't even touched the shadow idea. One caveat, the chief reason you won't find a passage is because it was not in canon form (the NT anyway) by the close of the NT period. By shadow I mean... incomplete, or reflection. As for foundational principles, there are others, and some of those need qualifying, but I took it mainly from that Hebrews verse. However, I must go... |
||||||
15 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121290 | ||
Note that the Amplified has that in brackets. It isn't in the text. Rather, the promise of Joel was that what was once given out by measure in the OT would now be poured out upon all mankind. I have seen some (actually quite a few in the last few days) commentators and writers suggest that, like the fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy which Jesus read in the Synagogue, the prophecy of Joel was only a partial fulfilment, a foretaste of the complete perfection. (Is. 61:1-2a, Luke 4:18-19) Christ quoted only the first line of the second verse, because, as many commentators believe, it was not yet time to fulfill the rest of that prophecy. Also note that there was a 400 year abscence of the Spirit between Malachi and John, and that both Christ and John were filled with the Spirit. |
||||||
16 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121289 | ||
Hah, yes, we all get a little unbalanced now and then... However, it perhaps was improper of me to do so in a public forum. Is there no personal message system upon these boards? By the way, the advice I gave you on my sixth post was as much to me as to you. (look at my other posts!) |
||||||
17 | Is prophecy dead? | Matt 11:13 | Wlerin | 121285 | ||
Numero Uno, he speaks of John the Baptist, who was the last of the OT Prophets, according to Christ. Also, as for tongues, yes, many are the fake forms, but, if you search carefully, and especially in the really out of the way places, you will find that there are actual times when a man speaking in his heart unto God (vocalizing of course, but not meaning for others to hear) has been heard by someone else, and his words understood as another language! They are, however, pitifully rare. Most missionaries opt for the natural method of learning languages. Don't say babbling unintelligible noise. That is exactly what another language sounds like to one who doesn't know it, so ye prove nothing. Most tongue-speakers that I know do so in a setting where few non-English speakers could here, so we cannot know whether they speak or do not speak an earthly tongue. Read 1 Cor 14:2, 9, 10, 11. Verse 2: does not speak to men but to God, for NO ONE understands, but in Spirit he speaks mysteries. However... I have heard some of the more public tongue-speakers... yeah, meaningless syllables (and the same syllable!) repeated... Or so it seems to me. Read Psalm 136... they could be saying that in a language that relies on tone rather than on consonants or vowels for word-distinction! And... did the apostles on the day of Pentecost have a Scriptural basis? The Charismatics have more than they. There is no clear definition, therefore the Spirit must give definition. (Eyes communicate with God on a private level) Again, Read 1 Cor 14. |
||||||
18 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121281 | ||
Here... both of ye... (Hank and WTB) http://www.geocities.com/ian4christ41/altindex.html I agree with both of ye, partway. I don't know if I totally agree with this guy either, but he explains the origin of the "tongues have ceased" fallacy. Also, Hank, consider, carefully, the meaning of I Cor 14:40 |
||||||
19 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121279 | ||
My only real point was that the tongues spoken by the 120 and in the other two instances are spoken of in the same words (the only difference being of small import, considering how long Luke's letter is), thus, I disagreed with the fact that ye used different words to describe the first. As I said, petty. However, as for the rest of it, I was trying to show that the real sign of the Holy Spirit's filling is testifying, confessing Christ, that is acknowledging His sacrifice, and His greatness, and sovereignty, and rejoicing in this. Whether this is done through tongues (as with the 120), through prophecy, through words of knowledge, the goal of the Spirit is to lift up Christ. Anyway, yes, tongues is a .... gift, and we should seek it, but even more so seek to prophesy, and even beyond that, we should seek Love. I have a tendency, dealing with such things as tongues and prophecy, to become incensed and go overboard with my denunciations. In any argument, in fact, I often become polarized to one side or the other, rather than to the truth. This is a failing of mine, and I ask forgiveness. Also, note 1 Cor 14:40. Okay, yeah... case closed |
||||||
20 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121270 | ||
To Leonore; Hank, and WTB Firstly, Leonore, I want to warn you. This subject about which we are, essentially, arguing, is not one of the foundational principles of following Christ, which are, according to Heb. 6:1-2 1) Turning from (faith in) dead works to faith in God (His sacrifice, His love for you, and His ability to both save and cleanse you, and to give to you a righteousness that will not fade), 2a) Instruction about washings (baptism and washing of feet) 2b) and about laying on of hands 3a) the resurrection of the dead 3b) and eternal judgment. I highly suggest, if you have not already (I didn't read all of your posts) that you read and study Romans, preferably with the NAS, supplemented by the AMP, if ye wish. One thing Hank said was unbalanced and I must address it: Yes, our experiences can be misleading, but the saints of old relied on BOTH the promises (not yet fulfilled) of God, and the works He had done, both in ancient times and in their own lives. God teaches us not only through the written word, but also through the reflections of the Word (which is Christ - the Spirit not the letter) found in our lives, in His creation, in everything. For the Law and the Prophets spoke of Christ, they taught of and pointed to Christ. The Bible contains the most pure, unspoilt and trustworthy shadow of the Word, but it is still a shadow, and there are many other ways in which God speaks to us, even through feelings and experiences. Hank is correct in that it is dangerous to rely ONLY on feelings or experiences for our light, or even primarily, but within them, seen through the light of the Spirit. I must cease, or I will start to argue again. Hank (and partly WTB). I realize (or think) that you are a moderator, however, this issue is not at all helpful to argue about, nor does it belong here (except by a very cracky tangent...hmm... cracky, er, yeah). It is not something that will deny to Leonore her salvation if she chooses in error, but confusion might cause her much pain. And...Christ through Paul told every church to be in agreement among themselves (and to a larger degree with all the churches). On this issue, Leonore needs to seek the counsel of her own fellowship, and follow their example, even as they follow Christ. I would love to dispute many of your points (and almost did) (to qualify or add to them, not negate them), just not here. |
||||||
Result pages: [ 1 2 ] Next > Last [2] >> |