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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67205 | ||
So obedience comes from faith? What must we obey? And if we must obey anything does this not become something we do? A work? Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed... If a result of faith is obedience then why do some choose not to obey the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and those whom He chose to spread the gospel? Mt 28.19, Mk 16.16 |
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2 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67201 | ||
And by faith, Abraham did something, he offered up his only son Isaac as a sacrifice. This deed, done by faith, was imputed to him for righteousness. Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; Sin is not remitted until baptism therefore we are not saved until baptism? Two passages say that it is. Acts 2:38, forgiveness of sin occurs after repentance and baptism, Acts 22:16 Paul's sins were "washed away" after he was baptized. The phrase "shedding of blood" refers to Christ's death. We come into contact with Christ's death when? Rom 6.3 No, I am not guilty of doctrines of men. What would you like to know about me that would benefit you? |
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3 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67199 | ||
Which should you believe? All of God's word, not just what fits your line of thinking. | ||||||
4 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67196 | ||
The basis of salvation is the death of Christ on the cross. Until I come in contact with this death I am lost. I come in contact with this death through faith that Christ died for the sins of the world and that through him I am redeemed. This is an overview of salvation. There are more specific things that must be considered. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. So what is involved with believing? First and foremost we must believe in Christ. Who He is, what He did, and for what purpose. Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." In an earlier post you cited scripture containing the phrase "will be saved". Would you agree that the word "shall" is a form of "will" (Mk 16.16)? Matt 10:22, Mk 13:13 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. Matt 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. The account of Matthew includes these two phrases above. But it also contains, "Matt 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. John 10:9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. John's account also includes John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus speaks of two "births" here, one of water (baptism), one of spirit, response to the gospel of Christ. Later in the text Jesus uses an example. John 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. Those who were bitten by the serpents had to look upon the serpent Moses lifted up in order to be healed. Was it this act that saved them or their belief that they would be saved if they looked upon the serpent. If they didn't look upon the serpent with belief would they be healed? No. The same is with baptism. Those that are bitten by sin must be baptized before it is remitted (Acts 2.38, 22.16), believing it will be once they do. A sinner is not healed unless they do. Acts 2:21 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' You stop short of the complete story. Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.' We have already discussed this at length. Cornelius's salvation began when he was baptized. Acts 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Another example of stopping short of the complete story. What happens in vs 32, 33. The word of the Lord was spoken to them and they were baptized. Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." The same person who wrote the passages above in Romans also wrote Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. When do we come in contact with Christ's death? When are we buried with him? When do we walk in newness of life? When do we become united with him? When is our old self crucified? When is our body of sin done away with? When are we freed from sin? When we are baptized. |
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5 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67175 | ||
In a few places. Acts 6:7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming "obedient to the faith". If faith doesn't require obedience how were the priests becoming obedient to it? Rom 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the "obedience of faith" among all the Gentiles for His name's sake, Paul, like the other apostles, received grace and his apostleship, through Jesus Christ (vs 4) in order to "bring about the obedience of faith". Gentiles, "among whom you (Roman Christians) also are the called of Jesus Christ", had to become obedient to the faith, the same faith in Acts 6:7. Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, "leading to obedience of faith"; 27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen. In Paul's closing of the letter to the Roman Christians, he states that the gospel (good news), his gospel of Jesus Christ...leads to obedience of faith. Col 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. This passage in Colossians clearly states that a believer is buried by baptism into Christ's death. This is also supported by Rom 6:3. We are then "raised up with Him" through what? FAITH! Faith in the working of God. God's is the one at work through baptism, not us. |
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6 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67169 | ||
Isn't believing something we do? The issue being raised is the necessity of baptism in salvation. Men have written volumes, I assume, on the subject. Why should I cloud my mind with opinion and interpretation (your eyes just got big) from men, when I can rely on the truth provided me in God's word. He has said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." I have faith that God has provided an accurate revelation of His word and that the common man can read and understand it without seeking writings of others. I agree it is good to consult secular writings for research purposes but the truth does not rely on these. How is what I cited out of context? Jesus was quoting scripture to Pharisees who were trying to bind the practice of washing before eating as a requirement of the law. Mark 7:8 "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." As I have pointed out numerous times, baptism is commanded by Jesus (therefore by God), it is commanded by the apostles, and is supported throughout the writings of the New Testament. If "Christians" neglect a command in place of a tradition, which "saved by faith only" is, what is the result? |
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7 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67165 | ||
We are saved by grace through faith. By definition, faith includes obedience to what we are commanded to do. Baptism is commanded. If you feel this is legalism then it is, to you. | ||||||
8 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67164 | ||
1 john 1:9 Was this written to christians or not? If we sin we must confess it before God. Scripture says He will forgive. We are not saved if we still have sin. Sin is not remitted until baptism therefore we are not saved until baptism. I agree. Let the reader decide. |
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9 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67159 | ||
Mt 15:9, Mk 7:7 | ||||||
10 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67158 | ||
Acts 22:16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name Paul believed but he was still in sin. What takes away sin? "be baptized, AND wash away your sins" God's word, not mine. Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; God's word, not mine! These people in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost believed for it was this belief that caused them to ask "Brethren, what shall we do?" They BELIEVED. Did Peter say, "you don't have to do anything else, you are saved"? No he told them what they had to do. They had to be forgiven of their sin and, according to Acts 2:38 they had to be baptized in order for God's forgiveness to take effect. "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Acts 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. At what point did the Philippian jailor believe? vs 31 when he was told to? vs 32 after the word was spoken to him? Brother Moran points out this passage in Romans. Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Vs 15, How will they preach unless they are sent? This is answered in Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned." Jesus sent his apostles out to preach the gospel. What is the gospel? Salvation has come to all mankind through Jesus the Christ. Jesus HIMSELF said, "He who believes AND is baptized shall be saved." He who believes the gospel and is baptized for what? Forgiveness of sin (Acts 2:38), to wash away your sins (Acts 22:16), "baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Pet 3:21) At what point does a believer have a clear conscience? Before baptism? NO, after! God's word, not mine! Belief AND baptism are included in the equation for salvation. This is not legalism! It is a command by God! Men have perverted God's word to make it into a work, a deed, something that it is not. |
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11 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67151 | ||
Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; If a person believes they will be baptized because of their belief. According to this salvation is a result of belief and baptism. but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. If a person does not believe they will not be baptized because of their unbelief. The result of this is condemnation. |
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12 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67149 | ||
If this is it, then why have baptism at all? From what you have told me it is totally unnecessary for salvation. If I am saved upon belief how can there be more that needs to be done? Why does the New Testament speak so much about it and its purpose if it doesn't serve a purpose in the plan of salvation? | ||||||
13 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67143 | ||
Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. The response to belief is baptism unto salvation, the response to disbelief is condemnation. If a person believes they will be baptized because of their belief. If a person does not believe they will not be baptized because of their unbelief. Based on the rest of your post, I believe I must take my leave of the forum. I bid you all adieu. |
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14 | What if we don't keep God's commands? | Romans | Teacher | 67142 | ||
Then answer my question of where in the bible it states that baptism is a work. Using the Eph passage to support such a teaching as yours is, if you'll pardon the expression, tunnel vision. This is one passage among many dealing with salvation. We must look at all of them and arrive at a conclusion based on all of them, not just one. | ||||||
15 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67134 | ||
OK, so what is involved in believing? |
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16 | Teacher, when were the 11 rebaptized? | Romans | Teacher | 67133 | ||
You miss the point. Paul is implying that these are fundamental, basic teachings, that all Christians should already know about. Heb 6:1 "Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. All of these subjects listed are basic, fundamental, and foundational teachings of Christianity. 1. repentance from dead works 2. faith toward God 3. instruction about washings (meaning baptism) 4. laying on of hands 5. resurrection of the dead 6. eternal judgment You, Searcher56, Brother Moran, and anyone else may continue believing what you wish, but the truth is evident and cannot be denied. As the song goes, "On the solid rock I stand, all others are sinking sand". As important as this issue is to resolve, it will not be resolved on this forum. You feel I am being closed minded and hard hearted, I feel you are the same. If we continue bantering back and forth as we are nothing good can come of it. I read Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. God's grace supplied the way, our faith gives us access to it. This faith requires obedience to certain things, else all will be saved. If all I have to do is say I believe in Jesus, with sincerity, how am I any better than the demons spoken of in James 2:19? Are they sincere in their belief? I think so. They are spiritual beings and would know. No one, not one of you has shown me where the bible says, specifically, that baptism is a work. Why? Because it is not there. Why is baptism such a stumbling block for people who earnestly desire to serve God? Jesus said to do it, his apostles said to do it, and there is ample evidence, if you look for it, to show that it is necessary for salvation. It has a spiritual purpose and produces spiritual results even if we do not see them. |
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17 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 67130 | ||
Brother Moran, if a person does not have to do anything then how is one saved? | ||||||
18 | Teacher, are you willing to learn? | Romans | Teacher | 66964 | ||
Yes, Acts 11.17 would support this. In Acts 2.41, Yes, in response to the message from Peter and the question asked, "Brethren, what shall we do?" they believed, repented, and were baptized. Acts 5.14, yes, because believing includes all of these. Matt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." This passage in Matthew includes the command to make disciples. How are disciples made? Through baptism. Then Jesus commands them to teach all that he has commmanded them, so, if baptizing is a command, being baptized would be the result of that command, and if the disciples were to teach all that Jesus commanded them, this would necessarily include teaching baptism. Cornelius and Co. could be baptized into John's baptism the same way those at Ephesus were in Acts 19.1-5. I have made an assumption based on scripture that if Cornelius' reputation of a "devout, God fearing man", being in the position he was (a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort), would have heard of the baptism of John. This may or may not be true because scripture is not that explicit in his case. Regardless, Cornelius and Co. did respond to the gospel call, they received the gift of speaking in tongues a sign to the Jewish Christians, and they were baptized for the remission of sin. What they received from the Holy Spirit, as divine in nature as it was, did not save them from their sin. Baptism into Christ was necessary for that. No where in the bible does it teach that the Holy Spirit cleanses us from sin. The bible teaches that the blood of Jesus, meaning his death, does cleanse us from sin. 1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. Did the 12 follow John or Jesus ... so why would they baptized in the former? Were the 11 rebaptized after His death? Let me ask you, how could the 12 be baptized into Christ while Christ was still alive? They couldn't because when we are baptized we are baptized into his death (Rom 6.4). John's baptism was to prepare the way. It was a baptism of repentance and it was necessary as the old law was coming to an end and the new law was coming into effect, at Jesus' death. Acts 19.1-5 clearly teaches that those that were only baptized of John's baptism, yes, had to be rebaptized into Christ. This would have included the eleven. |
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19 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 66958 | ||
Dr. Kenneth Weust says, "The Holy Spirit is literally the "agent" that places us into vital union with Christ Jesus. The "baptism" referred to in 1 Cor. 12:13 is obviously spiritual and it is not that we are baptized "with", but rather "by". " The bible says, "1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit." The bible says neither "with" or "by", but "into". I agree that the physical act of baptism does not do the saving but the grace of God, through the act of baptism, puts us in touch with the death of Christ (Rom 6.3, Gal 3.27). BradK asks, "Does Faith equal belief plus baptism?" On the contrary. Faith equals belief, belief includes baptism (Mk 16.16, belief AND baptism EQUALs salvation, Acts 2.38 repent AND be baptized FOR forgiveness). What about Gal.5:6 "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love"? Gal 5.6 says, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." I realize that I made the comment, "You must agree that the need for circumcision prior to salvation was a huge topic of debate in those days (dangerously similar to the need for baptism, the difference being circumcision is NOT taught as a requirement, baptism IS). Circumcision was commanded by God under the old law. The old law was nailed to the cross with Jesus, Col 2.14. Jewish Christians, still holding to the old law, attempted to make an old law practice, circumcision, a prerequisite to salvation. Baptism is now commanded by God under the new law. It is a prerequisite to salvation under the new law and the bible does teach it. Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. |
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20 | Unforgivable sin | Romans | Teacher | 66908 | ||
Dear Gracefull, you asked, "Do you believe the Holy Spirit (the third person of the Godhead) would take up His abode in an unclean temple?" First of all, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit "takes up His abode" in any temple. I do, however, believe that "unclean" people, in this example Cornelius and his household, were "cleansed" by God in the sense that they did receive at least one spiritual gift in order to prove to Jewish Christians that salvation had come to ALL men. The fact that they did receive a gift(s) of the Holy Spirit does not negate the need for them to be baptized as Acts 10.48 clearly indicates. Second, Please list the scripure(s) refuting this. Third, the apostles in the upper room, I believe, had been baptized with John's baptism of repentance, but not yet baptized into Christ because Christ had not died yet. It wasn't until Christ died that John's baptism was nullified and baptism into Christ came into effect (Acts 19.1-5) |
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