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Results from: Notes Author: RAVEN Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb.13:15 This verse addresses our prais | Eph 5:19 | RAVEN | 52206 | ||
Hello Grace and Truth, Continue as long as you can but it as you have already found out, it is an uphill battle. The forum has had all they could take of me so my time is up. You will probably be next, if it hasn't already happened. The ones in the forum say they are trying to search the truth and find the truth and want to follow the truth but they don't want to hear the truth. Good luck with your fight and keep up the good work for God and His word. Raven |
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2 | Mechanical Instruments? | Eph 5:19 | RAVEN | 52203 | ||
Tim, It is intersting to me that all Old Testament examples of intruments are spelled out. In other words it says something like I will sing and play on stringed instuments. I also noticed that David who wrote Psalms was indeed a musician. And there are a lot of references in the Old Testament to the use of stringed instruments. But also interestingly I found these two scriptures in the Old Testamnet book of Amos which says something you might find intersting; Amos 5 23Take away from Me the noise of your songs, For I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments. Amos 6 5Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments, And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David; So this would show to me that God really did not want to hear musical instruments. Contrastly, since the Old Testament is overrun with instruments there is not a single reference to them used in worship in the New Testament. And you can't use Revelation as a crutch to stand on because you know as well as I that the Book of Rvelation was for one a dream and two it is a book of prophecy which is fill with vivid imagery. Besides those Johns point out were Angels and we are not. So since you point out that the word Psalms comes from the Greek word "psalmos" and means to pluck. This word also comes from "psallo" and one of its meanings is to make melody or sing. So in closing could you not say that if God wanted instruments He would have ask for them? Or at least shown them in use in the New Testament? Allow me to leave you with these scriptures, Hebrews 2 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. Hebrews 13 15Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the FRUIT OF OUR LIPS, giving thanks to His name. RAVEN |
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3 | Authorized name vs. Unauthorized? | Matt 16:18 | RAVEN | 52183 | ||
Hello Justme, You wrote,"I know what I believe and where I feel most represents my theology, and follows how I think biblically a church should be run." God through His inspired word,Proverbs 28 26He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered. Proverbs 14 12There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. You wrote, "Well I can tell you in Bolivia in September of 1983 if it were not for Southern Baptists many missionaries who depend on private denoations would have gone belly up!" That was a good thing and I am glad they were able to help. You ask would I like it if there were no denominations? You bet I would! Was the Church that Jesus said He would build a denomination. If you say it was then you will blaspheme. You better think this time before you answer. The church that Jesus said He would build was the true church, and its the only true church. It had a pattern to go by and gospel message that was to be preached and that was the death, burial and resurection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! The rest of the New Testament after the book of Acts tells Christians to be unified in to ONE FAITH! NOT MULTI-FAITHS! or MULTI-DOCTRINES! Ephesians 4 13till we all come to the UNITY OF THE FAITH and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; Proverbs 4 2For I give you good doctrine: Do not forsake my law. Romans 6 16Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, YET YOU OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE TO WHICH YOU WERE DELIVERED. 18And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. Romans 16 Avoid Divisive Persons 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YOU LEARNED, and AVOID THEM. Galatians 1 Only One Gospel 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. Ephesians 4 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every WIND OF DOCTRINE, by the TRICKERY OF MEN, in the CUNNING CRAFTINESS of DECEITFUL PLOTTING Now after reading these scriptures, which I doubt you did or do, if you want to talk about strong language than lets talk! Would it not have been better for those in Bolivia to hear a sermon like the ones above instead of this watered down stuff you hear in every denominational church all across the world! The bible is clear when it comes to denominations and divisions of the Gospel. Read it! and learn it! Raven |
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4 | Traditional vs. Contemporary | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51977 | ||
Steve, It would seem that you agree with contemporary worship. But to come into the presence of the Lord, which is what you are attemping to do, how do you think based on scripture the Lord views hand claping, raising hands and arms above the head and swaying in your seat? The Psalmist said,Psalm 96 9Oh, worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness! Tremble before Him, all the earth. I'm sorry Steve but I don't think contemporary worship quite fits into the Lords pattern. Raven |
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5 | Church choirs? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51974 | ||
Hank please calm down. I don't want anything I say to push over the edge :) To answer your question of proof that forbids chiors. We are to learn from the bible not add to the bible. God sad, Malachi 3 6"For I am the LORD, I do not change;" And if God does not change His word does not change either. We are to worship as the bible directs us, not as man directs us. In other words if it ain't in there don't add it to your worship pattern? 1 Corinthians 4 6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. Raven |
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6 | Mechanical Instruments? | Eph 5:19 | RAVEN | 51909 | ||
Tim, Again as I mentioned to Steve, the verse says "speak". And it references James 5:13 where it says sing. I don't know about this "pluck" thing, I mean their is no example is there in the New Testament bible is there. What about Colossians 3:16. It says to sing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. If anything this plucking should be done on our "heart strings" don't you think? Raven |
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7 | Rom 7:9 What's it mean? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51840 | ||
This ritual that you call it was set in motion by Jesus Christ in Mark 16:15-16. By the way Hank can you show me your faith? I didn't think so. You know even the demons have faith and believe. But there not going to Heaven either. James 2:14-26 And you don't have to boast that your a Baptist we already know that Baptist place more emphesis on entering their church than they think Jesus Christ does on being saved! And a Happy Cyber Sailing to you too! Raven |
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8 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51316 | ||
Hello Treadway, Jesus Christ said, "You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free." John 8:32 So we agree that children or retarded people would be required to know. Since they can't then they would be safe. You wrote, "What about those who died prior to Christ's time?" These people were under the Mossaic Law not Christ. But scriptures tell us, Hebrews 11 The Heavenly Hope 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[1] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. You mentioned the ones in the flood. Noah had a 120 years to build the Ark. During this time no doubt he preached and tried to warn. The people probably mocked him. The point is, that others had ample oppourtunity to believe, but the refused. To all your questions about those who may never had heard of God, much less Jesus Christ. Number one God in the Old Testament used prophets and spoke directly to them. The people new God. And the New Testament tell us, Hebrews 1 God's Supreme Revelation Christ the Fullest Revelation of God (1) 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[1] purged our[2] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, And lastly, Jesus told His Apostles, Mark 16 15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. And one more verse I found while searching for this, Matthew 24 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. The bible tells us that the Gospel will be preached in all the world. Even if there could possibly be somewhere that the gospel hasn't reached, that person has got to think "Where did I come from?" "Why am I here?" "What happens to me when I die?" Ignorance is no excuse. Raven |
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9 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51306 | ||
Hello Treadway, You wrote; "Might be a "split of a hair", but seems to me that Jesus is speaking of a child (children) who believe, have faith, etc., the child who comes to Him in innocence." No, there are no spliting of hairs. There are no mention of any children in the bible that were saved or have need of being saved. The children are just children just like the ones we have today, just like the ones being born every minute. Another set verses to exam is Mark 10 Jesus Blesses Little Children (2) 13 Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but THE DISCIPLES REBUKED THOSE WHO BROUGHT THEM. 14But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; FOR SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD. 15Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it." 16And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them. Notice it says they brought the children and that Jesus did not say as He said to so many others (who were adults) that their sins were forgiven. You also wrote, "For example, if an earthquake destroyed a city in Japan, and thousands of children were killed, would they be in a "safe state", too?" From my previous responce I think I coverd this but the answer would be yes of course they would be in a safe state. Look at it this the way to understand it more clearly. Any child or adult even such as an adult who is mentaly retarded ie. Downs Syndrome. These people can not understand or comprehend what it takes to be saved or lost. I mean babies and little children can't even read. There is no doubt that if an eathquake was to wipe out Japan and every child or mentally retarded person would go to Heaven. No doubt! Surely you can understand this. I hope this has help you to better understand this question? Raven |
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10 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51282 | ||
Hello Treadway, I will tell up front that the bible does not have a verse that says the child is in a quote "safe state". But, as from all the scriptures we read mainly the ones Jesus spoke, the implied rule is children, infants what eve you want to call them are not in any danger of being lost. For instance this verse; Matthew 18 3and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." If children were bad or stained with sin, this statement would be false, a lie. God wants us to become like little children who are without sin. Of course the childs "safe state" is only temporary, because as the child grows and "understands" right from wrong and can make decisions on its own then and only then can the child start to understand what sin is and why we must be baptized to wash away our sins. This whole safe state revolves around the "age of accountability" which is another term not in the bible. But from reading the bible you must then understand that it was written for the accountable person. So they might know God and turn from sin. I hope this has helped. Raven |
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11 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51273 | ||
Thank you Cyclist,I appreciate your responce. Raven |
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12 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51272 | ||
Hello Justme, And that's fine that you feel that way. But you see all those things you pointed out were bad. You have to look futher into the action than just on the surface. Would you dive into water without knowing how deep it was? These things that you point out do not show that the child knows right from wrong. Do you really think with all the TV acting, fighting and shooting that the child really knows what death is? Or was the pregnant child preganant of her choosing, meaning that she knew she could get pregnant? Or was she raped? There is no way a child can understand the scheme of redemption. You cannot honestly believe that if you tell a child that God sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins that he is going to understand. All sorts of questions will arise. Who is God? Where is God? Is He dead too? Why did He send His Son to die? Was He a bad son? What is sin? And the list goes on and on and on! Yes, I will accept that there are a few exceptions but for the most part 99 percent of children cannot understand why Jesus paid it all. And even then if they do understand why Jesus died for us theres the act of baptism. Then you have opened up a whole nother can of worms. A child has got to understand why they are being baptized for it to be of any good. Just going through the motions will not help. What did 1 Peter 3:21 say "but the answer of a good conscience toward God". They just as adults have to know what they are doing and why they are doing it for baptism to have any effect on their future salvation. And speaking of future, These children still have to go through their teen years and be rebellious (hopefully not too much if they are raised in a Christian home)but when puberty hits the childs mind changes. And again just as adults the child must be responsible for their actions after they are baptized. You see baptism washes away the sins of a person, so at the point of baptism they are as clean from sin as a new born baby. Romans 6 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. But afterwards we must remain faithful Rev 2:10 for 1 John 1:7 makes it clear that salvation and redemption of sins are conditional "7But "IF" we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." I say this to show that just because a child is baptized, if he knows not what he is doing, there is "NO" once saved always saved in the bible. ALL salvation is conditional. If its in there then prove it by putting it up against 1 John 1:7 or many other "IF'S" I can point out. If it wasn't conditional there would be no warnings not to do this or that or if you do this or if you do that. A child that cannot comprehend what he or she is doing does not need to baptized. That child is in a safe state, and if anything happens to that child God will see to it that it will have a home in Heaven. Raven |
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13 | Saved with Baptism? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51258 | ||
OK ;) | ||||||
14 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51171 | ||
Well my question back to you would be,what about Phillip and the eunuch in Acts 8? It says he was a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and HAD COME TO JERUSALEM TO WORSHIP. Was he not seeking God? Raven |
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15 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51146 | ||
Hello Steve, Well since I can't understand and you said Eph.3 is not a valid argument. What about 2 Timothy 3 15and that from childhood you HAVE KNOWN the Holy Scriptures, which are ABLE TO MAKE YOPU WISE for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE COMPLETE, THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK. So how can this be if I can't pick up the bible and read it as it says in Eph.3 and understand it. Why does it say that it is able to make me wise for salvation and complete for every good work? Raven |
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16 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51140 | ||
Hello Tim, You wrote; "I have the promise of Scripture that if I call upon the Lord, I will be saved." I Never Knew You (5) 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' We see here that many will call upon the Lord and still be lost! You have to do somthing to be able to stand justified before the Lord! Read on Build on the Rock (6) 24 "Therefore WHOEVER HEARS these sayings of Mine, AND DOES THEM, I will liken him to a WISE MAN who built his house on the rock: 25and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; AND IT DID NOT FALL, for it was founded on the rock. 26"But EVERYONE WHO HEARS these sayings of Mine, AND DOES NOT DO THEM, will be like a FOOLISH MAN who built his house on the sand: 27and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. AND GREAT WAS ITS FALL." Ther were two men here, one a wise man and the other a foolish man. If the Lord does all the pick and choosing then doesn't this seem like a cheap shot to call a person foolish when he has no choice? And answer me this then, does the Lord have to save you before you call on the name of the Lord? Remember the ones above they called but were lost! Raven |
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17 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51135 | ||
Hello Steve, Ok Steve I guess I found another contradiction in the bible. You wrote; "Men would never be willing apart from the drawing. Romans 3:11 (ESV) no one understands; no one seeks for God. No one means no one." Paul says different in Ephesians 3 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, WHEN YOU READ, YOU MAY UNDERSTAND my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: By the way what is this ESV your using? Raven |
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18 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51118 | ||
Hello Hank, You write,"what are good works anyway?" Observing the Lords Supper for one. This is work that we are commanded to do.(1 Cor 11:24-25) But some might say that we do this at certain times of the year. Thats not when the first church did it though. It says they did it on the first day of the week. (Acts 2:42) Further more it goes on and says the disciples did it on the first day of the week.(Acts 20:7) Another example is singing. Ephesians 5 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, Also Colossians 3:16 teaches us to sing with grace in our hearts to the Lord. Again some might say we do that. Yes but do you include mechanical instruments? Some might say that the Old Testament shows instruments being used in worship. But it also says, Amos 6 5Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments, And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David; Like I have stated before we are under the New Testament now, and anywhere you look in the New Testament it says to sing, or they sung. Proper worship is a work that must be taken seriously, 1 Timothy 3 15but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And more but for time and space I think you get the picture. You also wrote, "And what connection do our good works have with Christ's atoning work on the cross?" These things that I have listed including baptism show God our reverence for Him as our Almighty and our love for His son who died on the cross for the sins of the world. You write,"If baptism and other good works save, what's the point of Christ's death and resurrection?" 1 John 2 says, The Test of Knowing Christ 1 My little children, these things I write to you, SO THAT YOU "MAY NOT SIN." And "IF" anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2And He Himself is the PROPITIATION for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. We have to have that gateway to enter Heaven and Jesus said John 14 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Raven |
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19 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51110 | ||
Hello Joe!, You wrote,"The Holy Spirit works through His word" That is what I have been trying to say! I also have been trying to say that the other verses I quoted in my last post work hand in hand with John 3:16 and Eph 2:8-9 and all other scripture. No scripture can be set aside or catagorized into a different doctrine. The bible must all fit together. Now please tell me are you saying then that God literaly chooses certain people and others He destins to burn in Hell? Please read again the verses in the previous post before giving an answer. Raven |
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20 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | RAVEN | 51109 | ||
Hello Tim, So then you agree with the statement I made, "before you do anything for the Lord He's going to have to save you first." Is this correct? If so then please tell me so I will know what to be looking for, what sign did you receive to let you know that you have been saved? Raven |
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