Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Notes Author: EJJ Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229713 | ||
Doesn't sound to me you are much confused. Yes I agree you do have to take the Bible as a whole you can not make a doctrine out of one verse. You say without God's grace acting on man he would never choose God. I say without the Holy Spirit drawing man he would never seek after God. And I disagree to a point on your view of man's freewill. The reason some end up in the lake of fire is because of our freewill. Of course God can decide who will be saved. But He chose to give us the choice. He made the way, He set the conditions and the choice is ours. Just as He said to the Israelites, today I set before you life and death, choose life. He gave them the choice. Just as He does to us today. Surely if God would reveal Himself to everyone, they would believe but not necessarily choose to serve Him. We must remember Lucifer and the fallen angels. They do believe in God. They have seen Him face to face. And yet, they chose to rebel. So seeing may be believing but not always making the choice to follow. As to the lose of salvation. I don't think that is a subject we have touched on yet. But I do hope you were not accusing me of avoiding the Holy Scripture so I can imprison God in my own logic. It did appear so. But I am sure I am wrong. |
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2 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229692 | ||
You are correct about the verse in Romans 8 being pro orizo. I was using the verse in I Peter 1: 20. Comparing how Jesus was foreordained before the foundations of the world. In Romans 8: 29 For whom God did have knowledge before hand , God also did decree from eternity those to have the same likeness of Gods Son, that He might exist to be the first among many brethern. 30 More over God did decree from eternity them He also called:.... Who did God call? Jn. 3:16 Whosoever will....Rom.1:16 salvation to everyone that believes... there is that word again pas individual, each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything or collective, some of all types. I interpret that as every individual of every tribes of every nation who believes. This is an age old debate. If we don't have a choice, and it is already decided, then why even try right? It won't matter, it has already been decided. Now that way of thinking is totally against the teaching of the Bible. We can't just go through life making decisions on what we think is best for us and know that regardless if we were predestined we will spend eternity with God. Sounds kinda like the no matter what you do you can't loose your salvation so it doesn't matter what you do. Both I believe are wrong. The way I see it is if God decided which individual COULD be saved and which one COULD not. Then we do not have free will. And He is not in character. Romans 2:11 He is no respector of persons. So also Acts 10:34 A character trait which continues from the OT 2Ch. 19:7. When I take the Bible as a whole I can see it no other way. For God So loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that who ever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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3 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229688 | ||
The word used for predestined or foreordained is the Greek word proginosko which means to have knowledge before hand, to fore know. God, being the Omniscient being that He is. Does know what each person will do. Just as He foregives all sin, knowing what they are from the beginning of our lives to the end. Just like before we were born He knew what we would look like, the members of our body and the number of hairs on our head. But we do have free will. That He has given. And we make the choice but He does already know what we will do. Proginosko! It is the Holy Spirit of God that draws us to Himself. Without it we do not seek out God. If we have an interest in the things of God. If we are seeking to draw near to God. If we desire to follow Him and do His will and make the choice to do so. We are part of the foreordained. Those He knew would turn to Him. For God so loved the world that whosoever...the word for whosoever is the Greek word Pas meaning individually, each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything, Or collectively, some of all types. To me that pretty much wraps it all up. If you (being part of the whosoever) chose to believe in God, accept Gods plan of salvation, repent of your sin and be led by the Spirit and not the flesh you become part of those He predestined. (had foreknowledge who accept) |
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4 | I am confused | Rom 8:30 | EJJ | 229685 | ||
Sorry I was unclear. No I am by no means advocating a works righeousness. If we could do enough to obtain it Christ would not of had to die for us. In the verses I left they speak of the conditions, first you must believe,accept the call to salvation, then you must repent (turn from sin) and be led by the Spirit and not the flesh.(this is the transformation that takes place) And yes we are human and we will fail, I understand this. Believe me I do. But we are daily being led by the Spirit and transformed. I think Romans 8 is clear on the change from being led by the flesh to being led by the Spirit. |
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