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Results from: Notes Author: Apollos Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185841 | ||
Mark This is an old controversy and I don't really want to spend much more time debating it. In my view regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit which is logically prior to faith, repentance and assurance of salvation, though as Doc has reminded us it may often be virtually indistinguishable chronologically. I just don't see how a person who is by nature at enmity with God can turn to God unless his nature has been changed. The conscious receiving of the Spirit (Acts 2:28)certainly follows repentance and faith, but there must be a work of God in the soul before repentance and faith can take place. I fear that we might debate this forever and I'm sure it must have come up on previous occasions so having clearly stated my position I am happy to bow out of the debate at this point. I am still uncertain about the exact timing of Cornelius' regeneration - which is what started our discussion off! May the Lord continue to bless us and guide us into all the truth. Apllos |
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2 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185837 | ||
Hi Mark Yes - I think it is clear that in the OT God both hardened and softened hearts. I think the softening of the heart so that it willingly responds to God and his word is just another way of saying regeneration. Yes - Bezalel was filled with the Spirit for the specific purpose of contructing the tabernacle. He may or may not have been regenerate. To be given a spiritual gift is not necessarily to be born again. This is clear not only from the OT but also from the NT. Judas was sent out by Jesus to peform miracles and Jesus said that "many" would claim that they had cast out demons and prophesied, but that he would not recognise them at the last judgement. In Him Apollos |
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3 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185830 | ||
Hi Mark Thanks for your response. You ask me for a biblical reference from the OT to show that OT saints were regenerate and you don't want convoluted logical arguments. I don't think it's wrong to apply God-given logical thought to the data we have in scripture That's what the early church had to do when they came up with the doctrine of the trinity even though the word does not occur in the Bible. I deduce from the fact that the patriarchs, prophets and psalmists show every sign of loving God and not being hostile and rebellious (as Israel was in general) that their sinful hearts had been changed and that their hearts were circumcised. This, as far as I am concerned, is just another way of saying that they were regenerate (i.e. God had changed their hearts). David certainly prayed for this ("Create in me a pure heart O God - Psalm 51) as well as for forgiveness of sins. I reckon God granted both his requests. I don't think he could have written Psalm 23 unless God had worked at least as powerfully in his heart as he has in mine. If you think that a heart changed by God is not regeneration I would be interested to know in what ways you think regeneration differs from a heart changed from hatred of God to love for God and trust and delight in God. Every blessing Apollos |
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4 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185823 | ||
I have no problem with the regeneration and salvation of those within the OT covenant people of God who rejoiced to see Christ's day and with whom we will sit down in the kingdom. What about non-Jews before the coming of Christ who showed all the signs of being regenerate - e.g. Job and Melchizedek? I am just curious whether there might have been others like them, e.g. Cornelius. Could it even be possible that there are others like them today? The gospel still needs to be preached to them - what a privilege to have preached Christ to Abraham even though he was already regenerate! I am not being dogmatic about any of this - just asking questions. That's why I am remaining anonymous and just using my screen name! In Christ Apollos |
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5 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185814 | ||
Doc Thanks for your helpful response. I 'm sure you are right. I wonder though about people who were regenerate prior to Christ's coming like the saints of Hebrews 11 who were saved by grace through faith and who demonstrated their faith by their works. This was all without hearing of Christ (for obvious reasons). There are even examples in the OT of gentiles who were clearly regenerate like Job and Melchizedek. My queries about Cornelius are just a tentative exploration of the possibility that he may have been someone like this. Such people on hearing the gospel will always of course recogise it as just what they have been waiting for. Is it even possible that such people may exist today who have not yet heard of Christ? These are only honest questions and my Evangelical convictions are not in doubt. I am very happy to be shot down in flames! Thanks for your great contributions and wonderful quotations. Apollos |
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6 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185765 | ||
Mark Thanks for your helpful comeback. I did say that I do not know when Cornelius was regenerated! I would be very interested to read the thoughts of others on this. I certainly think that God had begun a good work in him (Phil.1:6)and I find it hard to believe, therefore, that if he had died while Peter was on his way to his house that he would have gone to hell. But Acts 11:14 poses a difficulty for the view that he was regenerate before he heard the gospel. Yours in him Apollos |
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7 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185760 | ||
Dear Hobbs Thanks for your kind words - but I would rather you used a different word from "inspired"! Apollos |
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8 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185758 | ||
Hi Mark To be honest, I don't really know when Cornelius was regenerated. In my view faith in Christ is a result or fruit of regeneration and therefore Cornelius was born again before he trusted Christ and could not have done so if he had not been regenerate. I believe that godly OT Jews before Christ were regenerate and it is therefore possible that Cornelius (as a gentile convert to Judaism) was regenerate before he heard and believed the gospel. But, if this was so (and I am not dogmatically saying it was) his good works were the fruit of regeneration and his regeneration was a work of God's grace. He was certainly not saved by merit - no one ever was or will be! Yours in him Apollos |
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9 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185753 | ||
Hello Edwin My anaysis of Romans 1-3 is as follows. Ch.1:18ff the Gentiles are guilty. Ch 2 - the Jews are, if anything, more guilty than the gentiles since they have sinned against greater light. Paul's conclusion in chapter 3 is that all have therefore sinned and no one will be justified by works. The whole world is guilty before God. His conclusion to this argument is a whole string of quotations from the OT Scriptures to the effect that the human race is thoroughly sinful (3:9-19). When he says in chapter 2 that it is those who keep the law by patient continuance in doing good (and not just those who know the law like the Jews) who will be justified he does not mean that anyone actually is justified in this way because he goes on to declare in 3:20, 23 etc all have sinned and that no one will be justified by works of the law. It is only through Christ that anyone is justified, Jew or Gentile, with the law or without the law. This is how I interprete these marvellous verses. As for Cornelius, even as a good gentile who believed in the God of Israel and prayed to him etc, he still needed to hear the gospel of forgiveness of sins through the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43) and Peter specifically says in 11:14 that it is through this message that Cornelius and his household would be saved. I would also want to say that if he was seeking God before this (as he clearly was) it could only have been because God had begun to work in his heart to bring him to himself. Without that work of God no one would ever seek for God. Best wishes Apollos |
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10 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185429 | ||
Hello ebrain Am I right in thinking that you are arguing that Paul's statement in Romans 3 to the effect that "no one seeks for God" only applied to those who opposed Israel at the time the psalm he quotes was written? Surely the whole point of Paul's argument in Romans 1-3 is to show the universality of sin and that the whole world is guilty before God. He quotes Psalm 14 to back this view up. Whatever the original meaning of the statement in the psalm, Paul clearly believed it to be true of the whole human race when he used it as part of his argument in Romans 3. Because all are dead in sin and at enmity with God, no one seeks for God until God graciously changes his heart. Apollos |
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11 | Remarriage of a christian | Rom 7:2 | Apollos | 185339 | ||
Hello again Azure I can't see any biblical support for the statement that "God only puts much weight on a first marriage than a second, regardless of the reason of the failure of the first marriage". It seems to me that a second marriage must be in one of three catagories: 1) a fully acceptable marriage in the will of God like the remarriage of a widow. In this case surely God would put as much weight on the second marriage as on the first. 2) A sinful second marriage that is unrepented of and which is contrary to God's will, such as a wrongful marriage of a guilty party after divorce. In this case surely God does not recognise the second marriage. 3) A wrongful marriage that has been genuinely repented of and which God has forgiven (like David's to Bathsheba)on which God puts as much weight as the first marriage because he is so gracious. He gave Solomon to David and Bathsheba! God bless Apollos |
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12 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185337 | ||
Hi Tim I think I would want to argue that in context Jesus is talking about the arrival of the time when all nations - not just Israel - will come into the people of God. Greeks have just requested to see Jesus (John 12:20,21) and Jesus sees this as a significant moment. He is about to be lifted up on the cross and this will be followed (after the resurrection and Pentecost) by the worldwide preaching of the gospel. "All men" cannot mean every single person in the world. The verb "to draw" is a very strong word and is used in John 21 of the disciples dragging a net full of 153 fish onto the beach! If Jesus is here promising to draw every person in the world to himself he clearly failed to do so. I don't want to be drawn(!) into a debate on this issue as I am sure it has been fully aired on previous occasions. May the Lord bless your ministry. Apollos |
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13 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185335 | ||
Thanks ebrain I certainly agree that faith in Christ is the result of the new birth and not the cause of it. How can someone who is dead in sins and at enmity with God and whose heart is stone possibly come in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ unless God first works a change in his heart? Although you say that you are not a Calvinist, I thought this view of things is what is commonly regarded as the Calvinist position. I wouldn't particularly want to use the label "Calvinist" myself in that I think he was wrong about some things (e.g. infant baptism)but on the doctrines of salvation I think his was the biblical position. As I mentioned earlier, I'm sure this matter has been debated on the forum in the past and I don't want to start another debate up again. In him Apollos |
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14 | eph 1:4-5 what is predestination, chosen | Bible general Archive 3 | Apollos | 185312 | ||
Dear ebrain Of course all believers choose to repent and trust Christ but since the Bible says that the human heart is at enmity with God and that we cannot change our hearts it follows that our choice of Christ must be the result of his prior work in us. Our choice of him is the result of his choice of us. I am a comparative newcomer to the forum but I am sure that this subject must have been debated in the past. Best wishes Apollos |
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15 | Mark 8:33 and John 13:2,27 | Is 53:10 | Apollos | 181823 | ||
Thanks Mark for a helpful suggestion. I still puzzle over the fact that on the one hand there are passages that seem to suggest that Satan tried to persuade Jesus not to be obedient to the Father's will and go to the cross (e.g.the temptation to worship Satan and be given all the kingdoms of the world- Matthew 4:8-10), and on the other hand there are passages which suggest that the cross was a Satanic attack on Jesus (e.g. John 13:2,27; 14:30 | ||||||
16 | Were Ananias and Sapphira believers? | Acts 5:5 | Apollos | 181606 | ||
Edwin Are you not reading too much into the fact that Ananias and Sapphira are said to have lied to the Holy Spirit? This does not necessarily mean that they were born of the Spirit themselves. The Spirit was evidently and powerfully at work in the Jerusalem church and in the ministry of the apostles. Their deceptive and hypocritical behaviour was thus a sin against the Holy Spirit and points to them possibly being unbelievers rather than true believers. I don't think we can be dogmatic one way or the other about this since the Bible just doesn't tell us. Apollos |
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17 | Who are "these brothers of mine"? | Matt 25:40 | Apollos | 179741 | ||
Thanks Doc Great quote! Maybe Matthew 10:40-42 is relevant as well. Also John 20:17. Apollos |
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18 | Juesus rejected by the jews? | Rom 11:1 | Apollos | 179623 | ||
Doc. Thanks for all this. Yes - of course Jesus was rejected by the leaders of Israel and by the nation as a whole, but my point was that there was a remnant of Jews who accepted him and there still is! (Rom. 11). This believing remnant is actually the true Israel and by grace a Gentile like me who bows before Israel's God and believes in her Messiah is part of that Israel of God. In his service Apollos (so named because I want to be mighty in the Scriptures and am open to being taught more accurately!) |
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19 | Scripture and conflict in the church | 1 Cor 11:19 | Apollos | 179482 | ||
John Your church ought to have more than one pastor (elder). If it doesn't there may well be other leaders in the church who do not have the title "elder". In some churches this may be a board of deacons. A problem of conflict with the pastor should then be shared with the church leadership (after having been shared with the pastor). The decision of the leadership should then be accepted (Hebrews 13:7. If their decision is totally unacceptable, you should change your church. In Christ Apollos |
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20 | Scripture and conflict in the church | 1 Cor 11:19 | Apollos | 179468 | ||
Grace New Testament churches were led by a group of pastors or elders so the people to help you with a conflict with a particular pastor ought to be the other pastors! You should then accept the authority of the elders as a whole and if you find that you can't do so you should find a church with elders you are able to agree with. Be very careful before doing this however since (aasuming that the elders are all mature biblical men) the likielihood is that they are right and you are wrong! If it is not a major issue you may simply have to agree to differ and keep your disagreements with the elders to yourself as long as you reamin a sheep under their care. In him Apollos |
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