Results 1 - 20 of 495
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Results from: Notes Author: Aixen7z4 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How does God speak to us? | Heb 1:1 | Aixen7z4 | 154285 | ||
I will say one thing more and be done with this conversation. Let the word stand, that has been written. The folks who are writing here can agree among themselves, and then hurl insults at anyone who dares to suggest to them that they should listen to their brethren who think differently. You can embrace anyone whom you think will agree with you. You can congratulate each other for simply being of the same point of view no matter how it is arrived at, no matter if they are only borrowing and quoting without thinking. My word to you is simply this: that you should think of your brothers who think differently. And what I say to you, I say to all, because there are groups everywhere who hold another point of view, but who similarly congratulate each other and agree among themselves. They close ranks and close their minds, and they also despise you, their brethren. What I say to you, I say to them: Please listen. What I say to you, I say to them. You are correct in saying that God speaks through his word. They are correct in saying that God speaks to them personally. They need to listen to you and to pay close attention to what the Bible says. And you ought to listen to them, and appreciate their emphasis on the application of the word to our lives. It is from the Bible that they have learned that God is interested in a personal relationship and in personally leading them. If you listen to yourself you will also hear that God is not only the God of history and the God of the Bible, but he is the God of today, and he lives in our hearts. The Holy Spirit who dictated the Bible also wants to dictate our steps. He wants to take the truths set in the Scriptures and apply them to the specifics of our lives. He is the same yesterday and today, and he will transform the words of the Bible and bring them to life, so that you “hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk ye in it, when you turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left“, as in Isaiah 30:21. I am not writing this in order to solicit dittos or kudos but because, as we all say of our own statements, it is based on the Bible. I pray that you will listen, even while facing the reality that you probably won’t. But someone will read this and understand, so let it stand. I will not respond to your response, whether good or bad. I am leaving now for a church where there is all emotion and no Bible knowledge, where they sing “Gospel” and have no conception of what the gospel is. I am concerned with the reports that “seventy to ninety percent of the people attending the average church are not saved”. I want to show them the way, from the Bible, and encourage them to mix truth into their experience. As always, there are a few who will listen, and I trust it will be the same in this place. |
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2 | How does God speak to us? | Heb 1:1 | Aixen7z4 | 154278 | ||
I am inspired by the Holy Spirit, I think, to look into the way that he works, using the word of God to guide us. The word of God includes direct revelations and explicit, universal commandments from God. It also includes history, showing how people responded to what God had said. The Spirit reminds people of God's will, again recording their responses. But the historical account often includes the first clear indication that we have of the mind of God on a matter. Did anyone know, before Cain, that “sin lies at the door” and we must resist it? Did anyone understand, before King Saul, that “to obey is better than sacrifice”? The matter was not clear to the casual hearer, since it was God who had commanded sacrifice. It would take a closer examination, as Koukl would say, to see exactly who was to do what. One may suppose that all of the commandments and precedents had been set in the Old Testament, and that people in the New Testament, and in our day, have those scriptures to go by. But it is not quite that simple. Some of the commandments, including the command to offer animal sacrifices, have been annulled, superceded, nailed to the cross (Colossians 2). And there are new commandments, such as the one to preach the gospel, that do not appear, or are not clear, in the Old Testament. Still there is no doubt that we are to be guided by scripture, and the Holy Spirit here to help us with that. He guided Jesus. He was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1) and the Spirit led him (Matthew 4:1). When he was tempted, the Spirit brought to his mind the scriptures appropriate to the specific situation. Tempted to turn stones into bread, he was reminded that the scriptures had said, man shall not live by bread alone, from Deuteronomy 8. When he was asked to worship Satan, the Spirit reminded him of what had been written, that we should worship only the Lord our God, and that he is the only one we should serve” from Deuteronomy 6 and 10. Etc. There were times when people remembered scripture, and we are not told that the Holy Spirit was involved. Herod asked where Christ should be born, and they recalled what Micah had written, "Bethlehem of Judaea". They could search the Scriptures for those things (John 5:39). When Jesus cleansed the temple, in John 2, his disciples remembered that it had been written, “The zeal of your house has eaten me up“. In Acts 1, Peter referred to scriptures (in Psalms 41 and 109) which led him to seek a replacement for Judas. It is not clear to this writer whether the Holy Spirit was the one prompting those memories and leading him in that action. Some would say that only the Lord himself could choose an apostle, and that he would do that in Acts 9. Jesus had said the Spirit, when he came, would guide them (John 16) but the had not yet come when Peter was taking that action. Because he was filled with the Holy Ghost, I assume that he was guided aright in Acts 2, recalling the prophecy of Joel, and Psalms 16 and 110. A person may recall the scriptures of his own accord. But Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to the mind things that he had spoken to them (John 14). So, Peter recalls (Acts 11) what Jesus had said about baptism with the Holy Spirit. We may say it was the Spirit himself bringing that to his remembrance. When Paul recalls Jesus saying it is more blessed to give than to receive (Acts 20) we understand that it was the Holy Spirit reminding him, even though he had not caused it to be recorded in the gospels. But several New Testament passages speak of the Holy Spirit’s guidance without any reference to the Scriptures. The Spirit tells Philip to go to the Ethiopian’s chariot (Acts 8) and afterwards, he catches him away. He tells Peter to go with the visitors from Cornelius (Acts 11) and forbids Paul to preach the word in Asia. How he communicated those things, we are not told, nor do we know whether he made reference to any scripture. In the end, one would like to say two things. The first is, that the Spirit seems to give specifics (“Go to Macedonia”) where the scriptures are more general (“Go into all the world”). But then we wonder how he could possibly indicate ”Not Asia” when Asia is in the world and “all the world” is in Mark 16:15. There is no recorded scripture that would indicate (as in Matthew 10:5) that certain places were to be left out or left for later after the Gentiles had been brought into the scheme. The second observation is that the Holy Spirit seems to be using tools, not in place of, but in addition to Scripture, to guide the apostles. This should not give any comfort to anyone seeking guidance from God apart from Scripture. But some are new to the faith, and some still have no Bible. And we still misinterpret and misunderstand the Scriptures sometimes. Even here, we may read the same passages and disagree. May the Lord guide each of us as we seek him in his word, and with our whole heart. |
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3 | How does God speak to us? | Heb 1:1 | Aixen7z4 | 154244 | ||
We can agree with anyone who is seeking the will of God, whether through his written word or through personal interaction with him. Both are valid, and we can remind him that the two need to go together. Psalm 119 and John 16:13 go well together, and those who quote either one should reconcile them in themselves and with each other. |
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4 | How does God speak to us? | Heb 1:1 | Aixen7z4 | 154242 | ||
Hello, Doc: Hope you are doing well. I would like to agree with anyone who says anything on this topic, while encouraging them to consider what others are saying. God wants each of us to do his will. To do it, we need to discern it. I assume that all who seek God are sincere, and I do believe we need to get together, and help one another with this. and let us consider one another to provoke to love and to good works (Hebrews 10:24). |
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5 | How does God speak to us? | Heb 1:1 | Aixen7z4 | 154239 | ||
God speaks to us through his word, and personally. He either uses both, or he says nothing at all. It is such a good opportunity for two points of view to come together! And God would meet us there. Without the word of God, we cannot judge a revelation. Without the Holy Spirit working in us, we cannot understand the word of God, and it is useless to us. One group knows the Bible very well, or so it seems, but they get such a high from knowing that they do nothing to put the word into practice. They know in a general way what he might want done, but they are never sure what God wants done in the here and now. Another group gets such a high from feeling the presence of God that they go on impulse to do a thousand things, then think it not important to know if they were right things, for whatever God says is right. One group would say we should not be discussing personal experiences here. We should fill this space with Scripture. The other group says we are wasting our time with study. We should listen for the voice of God, and move. I know these people. One group met yesterday and talked, and they have not decided what to do, except to study more. Another group had decided that God wanted then to go to a specific spot to witness. But the last time they went, it rained, and they had to leave before it had started. Now they have decided to wait until God tells them to try again. One group would say we should not be discussing personal experiences here. We should document every statement with Scripture. The other group says we are wasting time with study. We should not be satisfied with obeying Scripture. We should listen for the voice of God, personally communicated, and we should be ready to move when we‘ve heard it. I know these people. And I wish that they would get together. I say that God uses both Scripture and the promptings of the Holy Spirit to lead us. The first without the second leaves us sitting in a secure spot, doing nothing. The second without the first has us wandering aimlessly, doing this and that that possibly adds up to nothing. The two need to be together, and the two sides need to get together, synergistically, to do God‘s will. Testimony and Scripture come together in Genesis 24:27. “I being in the way, the Lord led me”. The way is the word. The leading is by the Spirit. The two are inseparable. “As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried” (2 Samuel 22:31). The way and the word come together in perfect harmony (Psalm 18:30). With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments (Psalm 119:10). The heart and the word, in harmony. And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk ye in it, when you turn to the right hand, and when you turn to the left” (Isaiah 30:21). The Holy Spirit speaks the word of God, the written word of God, to guide us. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you (Philippians 4:9). He, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you (John 16:13) and give you peace (Galatians 5:22). He will instruct you and teach you in the way which you shall go. He will guide you with his eye (Psalm 32:8). |
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6 | Do those things. | Phil 4:9 | Aixen7z4 | 154047 | ||
Is that all there is? That is the question many believers find it in their hearts to ask, before they are saved, and some, before, and they go looking for the answers. Some find the Christian life, as they see it somewhere, boring and unsatisfying, and unattractive, and they seek excitement in emotionalism and activity outside the church they knew initially. We sense that God has an exciting and full life for each of his children, and we want it. Jesus came that we might have an abundant life (John 10) and we sense that it must include more than attending church, singing a little, praying a little, and listening to sermons. We want ecstatic experiences, intense feelings, and physical activity. We manufacture these things, or expose ourselves to other spirits, unwittingly perhaps, in order to experience them. It is nothing less than amazing, what some believers sometimes do in their churches. It seems unnecessary to compile a list here, and it is embarrassing as well, but it would include boasting, screaming, laughing, shaking, running, spinning, falling, and the like. These activities, and the emotions that go with them, seem to fill the gap, forestall the boredom, and may suggest that there is that much to the Christian life. It might do us well to wonder whether those things are not a substitute for the ones that God would have us do. What did Jesus do? What did the apostles do? What are the things that the Philippians had seen and learned and heard and were supposed to do? Like Timothy, they would have known activity in the gospel (Philippians 1:12), his “doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, persecutions, afflictions“ (2 Timothy 3:10). They were to follow his example (Philippians 3:17) in doing those things and enduring those things. And they were told that the God of peace would be with them, to give them peace (as in Numbers 6:26). There would be joy too, it is mentioned so often in that letter. And yet, that peace was to come after doing (Philippians 4:9) and joy was there to be received and expressed in the midst of suffering (Philippians 1:29). Believers were to find satisfaction, and fulfillment and joy and peace in serving the Lord, as Paul and Jesus did (John 4:34; Philippians 1:20). And we all should follow then (1 Corinthians 11:1; Hebrews 12:2). And neither one of them was known to seek out materialism or emotionalism. We should be imitators of Christ, and we should find our satisfaction in that. |
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7 | Profile of A Disciple | John 8:31 | Aixen7z4 | 153910 | ||
Let us not talk about this right now. Let us not talk about it at all until we have read again what Jesus said in Luke 14:25-35. Let us not talk about it until we have carefully pondered the standard that he set, and the cost of discipleship. There is a road that Jesus traveled, a live he lived, and he bids us follow. Those who dare to do so will pay a price, and he says we should count the cost before we start. Compare your life to his, and see how close you are. Then perhaps you’ll know if you have followed. | ||||||
8 | Profile of A Disciple | John 8:31 | Aixen7z4 | 153881 | ||
There is a gap between the ideal and the actual, my friend. That is one reason we have the epistles. Many of them review the process of salvation again, and then encourage us to follow on and grow. They point out that many have not grown, but have been stagnant or have even regressed in the way. When we might have gone on to be teachers, we are still babes, in need of milk, etc. Some of us are weak and sickly, etc. Clearly, we need help as we seek to follow. But we should not ignore the question: Have we started out at all, if we have not forsaken all, to follow him? In that condition, he said, we cannot be his disciples (Luke 14:27). It is one thing to describe an ideal disciple. But we must first see what a disciple is. There are some who respond to the call and follow. Some go away sorrowful. Some say they will follow and don’t. Some start out and falter. Some go away and return to the path after many years. Some try to serve both God and mammon, (Surely you know some) and Jesus says it can‘t be done. Some, far from forsaking all, feel they have inherited all, and they seek to possess it. Some are satisfied to be saved and do not want to grow or to do anything, and they will even tell you so. It is not a matter of being discouraged, my brother. It is rather a matter of recognizing reality so we can deal with it. It is a matter of recognizing who the disciples are so we can work with them, whether to mentor or otherwise encourage them. Surely you know there are cases, John 12:42 being one in point, where people believe but do not wish to openly or actively follow the Lord. It seems that their faith renders them saved while their reluctance to follow makes them not disciples. Yes, we are called to make disciples, but even as we see the ideal heights to which we want to take them, we also need a realistic view of what they are. We need clearly to identify what a disciple is. | ||||||
9 | Profile of A Disciple | John 8:31 | Aixen7z4 | 153871 | ||
Let us talk about this. Whatever else he is, a disciple is one who follows (Matthew 16:24) and learns from (Luke 11:1) and becomes like the master (Matthew 10:25). Some disciples may be further along than others. One thing that must be common to all, and in this sense it will define what a disciple is, he must be in process. I am not so sure that all disciples would have achieved all of the things you listed, Doc, though some might be at those levels. A new disciple may have little to show except his direction, and the footsteps of his master. A disciple may have been called by the master, or the person may have approached him and asked for the privilege. In Luke 9, a certain man said unto him, “Lord, I will follow you”. And he said unto another, “Follow me“. And another also said, “Lord, I will follow you”. Some were called by him directly, some came at the invitation of others, and some were simply attracted by what they had seen (See all in John 1). With these various beginnings, they followed him. One might have assumed that all disciples would continue to follow the Lord. But John tells of a time when many of them went back, and walked no more with him (John 6:66). Jesus speaks of some who are disciples indeed (John 8:31). Some translations use words such as really, and truly, and some seem to think he is describing the ideal. But Jesus’ words here and elsewhere that some who had been following him were not really his disciples. They must have believed in order to follow at all, but John says there was an occasion (in John 2) when many believed in his name, but Jesus did not commit himself unto them. Likely, although others might refer to them as “his disciples”, Jesus would not have referred to them as “my disciples”. And after all, it is up to the master to accept them (as in John 15:16) and to lead them (as in John 10:4) and to teach them (as in Matthew 5 and Luke 6) and to show them (as he did in Matthew 17). He is the one who decides who can or cannot be a disciple. Among those who follow Jesus, then, he says there are some who are not his disciples. They cannot be. There went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27). “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27). “Likewise, whosoever forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33). Jesus set those criteria, and we must look at them and look at ourselves, to know whether or not we are his disciples. You seem to have found a disctinction between a saved person and a disciple, too, and it might be good to talk about that. |
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10 | Conformed to scripture or Christ? | Rom 8:29 | Aixen7z4 | 153830 | ||
When a person is suggesting that you look at another post, he may give the number of that post, as I did some five (5) lines up. If you entered the number I mentioned (153548) and clicked on "Search", it would have taken you directly to the post I had in mind. But actually, I should have said “153260” which would have taken you to the first item in that thread. But please do not feel foolish. This is simply a computer program, and the writer could have done it any of many ways. That is the way it is set up in this program, and there is no choice but to learn it. After a while it will be easy. In a way, the Christian life is like that too. God has his particular program, and we just have to learn it. Practice. After a while it seems quite natural, and there is no other way. That is the lesson someone is learning at “47377“ too. Try it. |
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11 | Conformed to scripture or Christ? | Rom 8:29 | Aixen7z4 | 153814 | ||
There is a box towards the top of the right side of the screen, under the headings of "Quick Search" and "Words or ID#". Enter the number (without the # sign) and click on the button marked "Search" below it. |
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12 | Can one know if their spouse is saved? | 1 Cor 7:15 | Aixen7z4 | 153783 | ||
I agree, Searcher, and it is sad, even astonishing, to think about it. The prophecy that Jesus gave in Matthew 7:22,23 will come true. Some will think they are saved and will not seek to get saved, until it is too late. It reminds me of Jesus’ verbal interactions with the Pharisees, somehow. He told them they were blind (John 9), but they would not allow him to open their eyes. He said “The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:49). And I wonder how many will recall reading the passage from Matthew 7 in that day. I wonder if some will actually mouth the words from Jeremiah 8:20 on that day: “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved“. One thing I suggest, and I hope everyone can agree, that each of us should take a good look at himself and ask, “What if I am not saved??” It is strange to see people offended when that is suggested. It is as if they were asking, “How dare you question my salvation?” And yet, it may be the greatest favor we could ever do for someone. It could be the greatest favor we do for ourselves. Even now we may look at another person and wonder if he or she is saved. But each of us ought to take the opportunity to look again at ourselves. Perhaps, as Doc has suggested, we can erect a profile and look at others against it. We can also look at ourselves against it. But for now I only see a poor sinner leaning on the everlasting arms. |
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13 | Can one know if their spouse is saved? | 1 Cor 7:15 | Aixen7z4 | 153772 | ||
The question may be: "How can anyone besides the person himself, and God, know if that person is saved?" I agree that “even the person himself can be mistaken“. It is the most horrible situation imaginable, to my mind, that a person can think they are saved when they are not. The Great White Throne is not the place to find out. We do well, while on this side, to examine ourselves, whether we be in the faith; prove our own selves (2 Corinthians 13). The question of examining another person is another question, and the task may be impossible. I agree as well that a person can receive the word with joy and yet not follow through to salvation. They have no root in themselves, but endure for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by they are offended. How to predict or prevent that falling away, I cannot tell, except it be to make sure that repentance and faith are the responses to the Gospel (Acts 20:31). Repentance is the act by which we turn to the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:16). Faith, meanwhile, depends on the Lord to have done his part in regenerating (John 1:13) and sealing (Ephesians 1:13) and to do his part in keeping the soul (1 Peter 1:5). I am not sure that we can discuss the part that man plays and the part that God plays. I think you will say that God does it all, as in John 1:13, and I may say that God demands that we do our part (as in Acts 17:30 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8). Perhaps I can hasten to acknowledge that God enables us to do our part (as in Psalm 80 and Ephesians 2) and help us to find agreement there. I would be interested in seeing a "profile" of a saved person. I hope it is not drawn in the first epistle of John. There I really believe we have a profile of a true prophet, such as the apostles were (the “we“ in 1 John 1), in contrast to that of a false prophet or other spirit (as in 1 John 4:1), the “they“ of 1 John 4:5 vs. the “we“ in 1John 4:6. The distinction between a false teacher and an unbeliever comes, I think, because the former is active in pushing a false doctrine and turning believers away from the faith. The unsaved person does not necessarily do that but, as you have noted, may be mistaken about his own relationship with the Lord. But not to preempt you, it would be interesting to have a profile that we can look at to be fairly sure that another person is really saved. Be careful now, and show the scriptures, and paint us a full picture. Some parts may not be pretty. Some people who are apparently saved can nevertheless be quite unpleasant. |
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14 | Christian, or Good Ole Boy? 1 of 2 | Prov 23:7 | Aixen7z4 | 153631 | ||
Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him ... lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthians 2). |
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15 | Love God, His word, any difference? | Ps 95:10 | Aixen7z4 | 153548 | ||
Dear Doc: I am sad and disappointed that you do not see it. There are people who love the Lord, and do not love his word. Also, there are people who love God’s word and do not love him. I am so sorely tempted to tell you more stories from my travels and my practice to prove the point, but I will heed your warning about Forum guidelines and refrain. Instead, I will ask you to look again at the very scriptures you have quoted. Psalm 1 does say it is a happy situation when a man loves the word of God. It does not imply that every Christian is in that situation, only that it is good when he is. Psalm 119 does say that those who love the law have great peace. It does not imply that every Christian does that or has that. It encourages us to do it, so we can have it. John does say that whoever keeps God’s word has had the love of God perfected in him. But “whoever” means those who do, not that all believers do. Again, that is how the believers would know apostles, the true prophets, from the false prophets? The false prophet gives evidence by their fruit (Matthew 7) that they are false. The apostles were proving they were true by their obedience. You say that the world hates the word of God, and that may be so. But the Lord in Jeremiah 6 is not speaking about the world, but about his own people. How good it would be if you were correct, that every Christian loved the Lord and loved his word. But God says about his people, “Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knows his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider (Isaiah 1). Christ says to his church, “I have somewhat against you, because you have left your first love” (Revelation 2). These things are not written to discourage anyone. But neither should we pull the wool over our eyes or put our heads into the sand and pretend that all is well. Some of God’s people do not love him, or his word, or their brothers. Some do one, or two, and not the other. That is why the commandments and the encouragements stand: “You shall love the Lord” (Matthew 22). “(You) search the scriptures (John 5). “Lovest thou me?” (John 21). “If you love me, then keep my commandments” (John 14). “Remember whence you hast fallen, and repent (Revelation 2). “Desire the sincere milk of the word” (1 Peter 2). The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine …, but watch thou … (2 Timothy 4). If we assume that all is as it should be, then we do not see the need for change. But there is a need for change, in the church. We should love the Lord, and his word, and each other. Experience aside, the Lord has always shown his people that there is a need for improvement in each of these areas. There is such a need for those who love the Lord to love his word! If we do not see that, then it is Malachi’s day again, and it is sad. |
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16 | Love God, His word, any difference? | Ps 95:10 | Aixen7z4 | 153545 | ||
Hello, Doc: The only scriptural evidence I felt led to offer was the statement by our Lord, that ‘"sinners also love those that love them" (Luke 6)'. See verse 32. You can ignore the fact that humanism makes love for others the object of the religion and finds no need for God. To be in keeping with the forum guidelines, I should not have mentioned it, since I did not take the time to recall what the Bible says about that. I also will not ask you to give a Bible reference for the idea that “lost people do not know how to love”. I would guess that Jesus’ statement about “sinners” loving others is enough. |
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17 | What's the proper response to injustice? | 1 Pet 2:19 | Aixen7z4 | 153211 | ||
Understand that the matter is important. It is not a theoretical issue, even as the Bible is not a theoretical book. God’s word is given to guide our lives. In it there is direction as to the way to confront injustice and to promote justice. But most of us ignore the problem even as our brothers and sisters, and sometimes we ourselves are suffering from it. The least we can do is to talk about it, but my fear is that we won’t, and that some will seek as in the past to actively suppress the discussion. I know it sounds paranoid, but that is what happens. That is why the issue is not discussed. That is why injustice proceeds unchallenged, and justice fails, to the detriment and suffering of many. That is my fear, that the issue will be not only ignored but actively suppressed. I hope you understand. The meeting that I spoke of went quite well, in many ways. The Gospel was preached and some came to faith in Christ. The young man in question took part and said that he was glad for it. But the leaders of the church were not there to see what he was willing to do and able to do. That is what I had planned for them to see and I had hoped it would encourage them to allow him to use his gift in church. As it was, they did not get to know him that way and they still have not called him as they had promised about the task he had volunteered for. He told me he will look to other churches now for opportunities, and indeed he visited another church with me the next day and spoke to the elders there. It is good that there are other churches, and I trust that he will have a chance to use his gifts and further develop them. I understand and agree with all that you have said. We all should use our gifts to meet needs. The scriptures teaching that are well known, I hope. Titus 3:14 is a key passage concerning this. Thank you for pointing it out. But we must keep in mind it was Paul writing to his delegate and specifically instructing him to monitor and facilitate this. “I left you in Crete for this reason, that you would set in order the things that were lacking” (Titus 1:5). There are things that are lacking, and some would volunteer to make up the lack and use their gifts to meet the needs. But there are those who guard the gates and choose the players, and injustice occurs when some are denied opportunity. I hope you agree that everyone has both needs and gifts. That is what I get from passages such as Ephesians 4:16. The question has been how we should react when we see injustice, when gifts are not used and needs are not met. I had hoped that this discussion would have revealed some scriptural ideas for us to use, each in our area, as we see the need. Contrary to the idea of promoting some and consigning others to the role of spectator, which often takes hold, we ought to provoke one another to love and to good works. |
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18 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | Aixen7z4 | 153168 | ||
What more can be said, that has not been said, I wonder, about this and the related topics? I would be alone ranger at this point, if necessary, and say that this debate will serve no useful purpose. But then again, perhaps that is what Samantha has said. Searcher has suggested that we may not want to go too deep into the question, and we seem to have agreed to that, as we have not gone too deep. I have often wondered what the purpose is, in taking sides in this great debate. I have some ideas, but I judge that it would not be any more profitable to suggest them. With apologies to our brother Tim, I would suggest instead that we do go deeper, and I will hasten to add that we could do so by looking for the truth in the other side. The two sides, I say, are compatible, and they come together at the deeper level. Scriptures do not cancel out each other. They are all true. We should not add to them, and we should not in any wise take one jot or one tittle away (Proverbs 30:5,6). Blessed is the man who has learned to say that Scripture teaches both an unchanging God and a God who calls for, and responds to repentance. I could take some time to show how the two come together, but I suggest instead that each of us look into it. It would save us time, no doubt, and give us time to respond to God with obedience. For one thing, it would allow us to obey 1 Corinthians 1:10. It says, to remind us, that God wants all of us to speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among us; but that we be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. It would please God if we did that. It would also allow us to stand together in one spirit, with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel, as mandated in Philippians 1:27. I do hope it is self-evident that the time spent debating this issue is time that might be spent striving together for the faith of the gospel. I would not be surprised if someone can prove otherwise, but I would suggest we not get into it. As before, I would suggest that each one look for himself into what those verses say, and what they require. |
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19 | What's the proper response to injustice? | 1 Pet 2:19 | Aixen7z4 | 153064 | ||
You are correct, of course, especially with reference to that previous discussion. The answers have been given to the leaders of the church. We presume that they have read the letters and they know what to do. But we are in the same situation as Habakkuk saw, and Jeremiah, where it is the leaders themselves who are perverting justice. One may well sing the dirge again: “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?” from Psalm 11. It is a rhetorical question, perhaps, and one should not expect an answer, except the one that God gives. The truth is, my dear sister, that I ask the question here in fear. There has been someone who would discourage anyone from providing suggestions here because he knows that I seek these answers, not necessarily for myself, but for some who come to me for help. And sometimes I am lost for words to say to one who is suffering emotionally and otherwise because of the treatment they receive at church. I have tried what I know, to give words of comfort, and to intervene on their behalf. And I know what it means to be ignored, or attacked, for “interfering” on behalf of a victim of injustice. But I ask the question if perhaps it might focus attention on what is going on, and maybe prick a conscience. I am about to leave for a meeting now, and I am taking along a young man who has been a victim. I can but hope that the sight of him will touch the hearts of the leaders who have been against him. I am afraid that he will leave the church and abandon his efforts to serve the Lord there. I do not know if this trip will be a step forward or backward. I think of your words again, and Jesus’ words, that one must be wise and harmless. I hope I can be that. It is a strange phenomenon that I see, no matter how often I see it, and though I know the word of God is true: “If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they” (Ecclesiastes 5). One should rest in the fact that God sees, perhaps, but it is hard to stand and look. Even men of the world have been moved by conscience to shake off slavery and apartheid and discrimination. But what will the righteous do? |
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20 | What's the proper response to injustice? | 1 Pet 2:19 | Aixen7z4 | 153033 | ||
Every word of God is pure (Proverbs 30) and surely there is pure honey, and dynamite too, in Matthew 10:16. Jesus told the apostles, “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves“, and I think we can relate that to problem of injustice. Let me do it this way. Let us say it takes wisdom to go into a world of wicked men with the Gospel, for all men have not faith (2 Thessalonians 3:2). As a wolf tears a sheep, so wicked men can hurt you (1 Corinthians 15:32). One must be wise. But consider what happens when that wolf puts on sheep’s clothing, and you cannot tell by outward appearance that he is a wolf (Matthew 7:15). It takes wisdom. Consider what happens when those wolves have come into the church (as in Acts 20:29 and 2 Peter 2:12)! Now, what if those wolves dispense justice in the church? What when they pervert justice? Is the church then to bear with it, or to root it out? There was injustice in the early church, and “there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration“. The questions I have are these: Should the Grecians have murmured? Or should they have suffered themselves to be defrauded (as in 1 Corinthians 6:7)? And there is injustice in the church today. I hope all who read this would consider that these are not theoretical questions. I am aware of the way that people are treated in church, and the complaints sometimes come into my ears. My impression is that most people bear with it. Otherwise they move to another church, or they forsake the assembling of themselves together. And I am pondering this today, unsure of what’s to be done. The problem is everywhere. It is in society. Nonbelievers encounter it. Believers encounter it as they live their ordinary quiet lives, and as they present the Gospel. That latter situation is probably where we need the wisdom of serpents most, and the harmlessness of doves. But we need wisdom to face injustice in the church as well, and for me the question is urgent. As Peter would say (4:17) “The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God“. |
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