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Results from: Notes Author: zerotheory Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | In Gen 1.26, God refers to us and our.. | Bible general Archive 1 | zerotheory | 65370 | ||
I'm sorry but this does not help. Genesis talks of the beginning and in the beginning the word was with God and the word was god but it wasn't until later that the word became flesh. I don't understand how God would have referred to *US* and *OUR* in the beginning. If your answer were the case then wouldn't scripture put the events in correct order? | ||||||
2 | In Gen 1.26, God refers to us and our.. | Bible general Archive 1 | zerotheory | 65381 | ||
I guess my problem is in the cronology of the events. It seems to me that God would have explained his son and his holy spirit from the beginning. Also, nothing would deter me from having the same view of the others if they were not considered the same as God at the same time as God. If they are also God then why not just refer to them as God? | ||||||
3 | In Gen 1.26, God refers to us and our.. | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65378 | ||
Here is my problem, "It teaches that there is one God who manifests Himself in three Persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. --Hank". I don't think God was speaking in this way. You have said God is all three, who was God speaking to? It appears to me that God is speaking to, and of, everything which was just created, everthing that is or can ever be. God spoke to *everything* that was just created and then created man in the image of everything, light, night, heaven, earth, water, land, every living creature, as well as God. | ||||||
4 | In Gen 1.26, God refers to us and our.. | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65386 | ||
[Gen 1:26] And God said, Let us make man in *our* image, after *our* likeness. God was the only one other then everything else which was just created. Sorry, but at this time there is no mention of any son or holy spirit plus you yourself has said the father, the son, and the holy spirit are all one in the same. Again, it goes back to cronology. Please help me understand. | ||||||
5 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65405 | ||
[If you believe that Jesus (Col. 1:16) created all things, then why do you not accept the 'us' of Gen. 1:26?] First, I didn't agree Jesus created all. God, the eternal, did. No, I don't believe in three seperate Gods, just one. The God Eternity, the God that is in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit, and in all of mankind. "2) Where does Scripture say that Jesus was created?" I do not know. According to scripture, aren't all men the Son of God? "3) Where does Scripture say that the Holy came into being?" Again, I do not know. |
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6 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65414 | ||
Tim, Sorry but I see [Col. 1:16] as: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. I don't see anything of Jesus. Me, myself, and I. Who is it? Do you see why I have questions, it's sorta confussing. Jesus is the Son, Son implies creation. Creation comes from something, in this case it came from God. The God which wasn't created, the *ONE* and only original and eternal God. GOD! Again, sorry I don't see Jesus here: [John 1:1-4] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. |
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7 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65419 | ||
Hank, Clearly Jesus is discussed in John 1 however, look at [John 1:13] Which were **born**, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, **but of God**." [John 1:13] tells of the **creation** of Jesus Christ by hte will of God. "Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, or merely a prophet, or some sort of angelic being, or perhaps just a man?" I think everyone and everything is the eternal Son of God. What DO you believe? I believe in MYSELF. I believe in my versions of interpretations as hopefully you believe in yours. Hearing your version helps me form mine and for that I thank you. |
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8 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65491 | ||
Tim, Thanks for all of your help. I'm sorry but I see [Col.1:16] as: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. I see it as the "him" is in reference to [v.15]: Who is the *image* of the *invisible God*, the firstborn of every creature. Correct me if what I'm seeing is not correct but: [v13]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. [v.14]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins. [v.18]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [v.19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell. Clearly there is reference to Jesus but there is also reference to [ver.3] "We give thanks to God **and** the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you." The passage does not read [God, our Lord Jesus Christ]. [John 1:14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the **only begotten** of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ***NOTE****IMPORTANT**** The definition of begotten: [websters] "To cause to exist or occur; produce". It appears as though you believe in Trinity as the Godhead. So let me ask you, if the Godhead is all seperate but equal Gods then why is it that Jesus refers to "my GOD" in [Mark 15:34] "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" If Jesus were part of a Godhead then first, why would he feel forsaken, and second, why wouldn't he know he couldn't have been forsaken? Jesus could not have been forsaken because the Godhead could not have continued to exist without him and if he were the God would have know that. |
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9 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65496 | ||
[John 1:12] But as many as received **him(Jesus)**, to them gave **he(Jesus)** power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on **his(Jesus)** name: [John 1:13] ***Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.*** And here is the item you are looking for: [John 1:14] "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." It was here at this time that Jesus, the Son of God, was **begotten**(created). |
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10 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65497 | ||
I don't think so because (I'm not sure where but) scripture says that you are with God from the very beginning. | ||||||
11 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65500 | ||
Hank, thank you very much for your response. Here is one thing I believe, I believe that God did not intend for labels to be placed on people for their thoughts and that just because one feels differently from another they are no more or less worthy of faith. Am I a pantheist? No, but my eyes, mind, and heart are open to understnad that point of view. Do I believe in **parts** of cosmotheism? Absolutly! The reason why is because there is both logical and mathematical proof that God exists. Let me ask you a question; Do you think that the God you know is the "EXACT" same God as anyone else knows? If your answer is "yes" then why all the discussion? If your answer is "No" then there God is different then yours. Here is a conflict in your statement: Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful about all things, and desperately wicked." **AND** Proverbs 3:5,6: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." Here is a case and point: "But to remember always that God put it together and we should never presume to try to pick it apart." Man put it together through God. God changed everything from one language to multiple for a reason. Love is in the heart and logic is in the mind. God gave us both, it was for a reason. There is a message in all of this: "Use your mind to find all of Gods glory and your heart to love him with all or YOUR glory". Sorry, just observations. |
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12 | In Gen 1.26, God refers to us and our.. | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65501 | ||
"This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." HELP! Clearly God is speaking of his Son, Jesus Christ. He is not speaking of himself aside from the fact that he(Jesus) is of him(God). |
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13 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65520 | ||
Joe, Great point! "The problem is not God being "different" for me and "different" for Hank. Our God is the same, but our problem is in our understanding of God." I am happy for both of you. How is it that you are so certain? Is it because you both beleive there is only one God and they are one in the same? How would you explain Hindus, Muslins, Buddists, or any other non-Christian? Or for that matter that of the Pantheist? |
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14 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65521 | ||
Joe, [quote from Joe]"We differ in a few respects on what He is like and how He operates, but that is a far cry from saying we believe in different Gods. The problem is not God being "different" for me and "different" for Hank. Our God is the same, but our problem is in our understanding of God." Here is a good one for you or anyone else to answer. It has to do with confusion from communication and definition: What is the definition of "NOTHING", what is the definition of "ZERO" and what is the meaning of the number "0"? Does or can "NOTHING" exist? |
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15 | Son or son? Holy Spirit or holy spirit? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65539 | ||
Thanks Tim. It will take me awhile to digest. | ||||||
16 | So...what is your theory? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65730 | ||
[From EdB][The problem with the zero theory is not one of fact but rather of statement. The theory says zero exists but is nothing therefore for it to exist it has to be something. However stated thus we can see zero can and does indeed exist. Zero is the absence of anything, that condition can be mathematically proved, therefore the absence of anything or zero can be proven to exist. This is the same problem many people have with a belief in God, The problem is not that God does not exist or that his attributes can’t be seen, the problem comes from the non believing person stating conditions of belief that can not be met. Whenever mortal man tries to construct a box around God by the very definition of God we are destined to failure. EdB] Ed, You are correct! Let me restate a few things. Most people associate "0" with "nothing" and most people use the word "nothing" as if it were actually something. People do this because logically they know that absolute nothingness does not exist, therefore it is something. "NOTHING" cannot, will not, and can never exist. As you said, you can't have "nothing" if you have something. In mathematics, everything begins and ends with "0", everything that exists; exists because "0" exists, "0" is sovereign while all the other numbers depend or rely on another number, "0" is responsible for the creation of all the other numbers(they were created from "0"), "0" always exists(it never goes away and eventually it always shows back up), you can always find or turn everything over to "0" simply by multiplying by "0" and everything becomes "0". The point of the theory is: Even if you think, or it appears, you have "nothing" it is not true because there is no such thing as "NOTHING", you always have "something". Case and point, (which comes form the "ZERO" theory) absent everything else that exists, no matter what, whether it appears so or not, God exists and will always exist, you always have God, God is always with you, you can always reach God, and you can always bring God into your life. Some people have responded to my post of the "ZERO" theory, such as you did: "the problem comes from the non believing person stating conditions of belief that can not be met. Whenever mortal man tries to construct a box around God by the very definition of God we are destined to failure." It's not about trying to put a box around God. It's trying to show the NON-believing person, with mathematical proof and logical understanding, that he does indeed exists. "Use your mind to find all of Gods glory and use your heart to love him with all of your glory". |
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17 | So...what is your theory? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65741 | ||
[quote from John Reformed] "The problem is not that people do not believe in God. The problem is that they will not worship Him as He is. Rom 1:20-22 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, It is my experience that you can waste a lot of precious time dicussing philosophical theories with unbelievers. Even if you do force an atheist to begrudgingly agree to the existence of God, it is still a long way to persuade him in a belief in the God of the Bible. Salvation or faith in Christ are not achieved through intellectual debate. They occur as a direct result of God's grace toward an individual. Faith is given as a gift. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God Just present the gospel and trust the Holy Spirit to bring them to spiritual life. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. John" John, look at what you are saying: "The problem is that they will not worship Him as He is." "Even if you do force an atheist to begrudgingly agree to the existence of God, it is still a long way to persuade him in a belief in the God of the Bible." "Just present the gospel and trust the Holy Spirit to bring them to spiritual life." "Salvation or faith in Christ are not achieved through intellectual debate." Don't you think the ones who don't "worship Him as He is" is because they don't truely believe? "FORCED" can never replace love. To truely accept God it must come through the heart and mind from love and understanding, NOT FORCE. Isn't intellectual debate or "internal" debate the way we all learn to love? Why did God give you a mind if he didn't want you to use it? "It is my experience that you can waste a lot of precious time dicussing philosophical theories with unbelievers". How is it a waste of time to help someone discover the will of God. If they are a non-believer then they are searching for true, proof, understanding. It is actually these people who need the most help and are the most willing to accept help if it can be done at their level. As I have said John, "Use your mind to find all of Gods glory and use your heart to love him with all of your glory". There are no problems with the "ZERO" theory, it is divine. You should try to open up your mind and understand it, it will help you to serve God better by helping others find his glory. |
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18 | So...what is your theory? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65757 | ||
John, [Quote from John] "I do believe that philosophy, logic and human reason can and should be used in the area of apologetics. But they are not the basis on which men will be saved. It is the Gospel that brings change in the heart of man. *****END QUOTE***** Correct! Man will be saved by bringing God into his heart. However, from your previous post, I think what [Eph.2:8-9] is saying is that it is by Gods grace that you automatically have faith. Meaning, I don't think you have to do anything and God will still accept you. However, when you take God into your heart is when you will see all of His Glory. I think what Rom 1:20-22 is focused on is the "being understood through what has been made". I think what it is saying is that God isn’t just all that *IS*, and don’t think yourself wise if that is what you believe, but that God is everything that *IS* *WAS* *OR COULD EVER BE*, whether it is seen or unseen, known or unknown, if it can be it is because of him. "0" is the exact same way. Perhaps you are number 541 and that is because your father was number 300 and your mother was 241 and together they made you, 541. But where did your mother and father come from? And where did they come from? It all trickles back to "0". The only reason you became 541 is because "0" exists. You can’t see "0" in 541 but it is there, always has been, always will be. What happens when (5-4)-1? Right, "0". Everything works this way. |
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19 | So...what is your theory? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65781 | ||
[Quote from John Redeamer]"If you want to see the lost come to Christ, learn to present the gospel. It has the power not us." John, You are correct, the power is in the gospel and the gospel works from the heart. However, there are many people who search for things from their mind and don't open their hearts until their mind says it's okay. All the "ZERO" theory does is help those find, factually, what they are looking for. It is the scripture that they must turn in order to discover all of Gods glory. John, I am going to reveal something to you. I am not knowledgeble of the bible, I am not knowledgeble of science, or mathematics, I don't even have a college degree. Yet, by way of the logic in the "ZERO" theory, I have been able to accept that there truely is a God. It is only because of this logic that I was able to find what I was looking for. No one forced me, no one urged me, no one willed me, as a matter of fact no one even prayed for me. You see, I was more of an athiest then I was a christian but when I, through Gods grace, found the "ZERO" theory I was able to open my heart to what my mind would not allow me to in the past. So when you say things like:"If you want to help them discover the will of God then give them the "Word of God" and not fancy theorys designed to expose their erroneous logic. If they are unbelievers it reqiures God's action upon their hearts to bring them to a desire for Christ." That actually has a negative effect on someone like me because logically, it doesn't add up. There is alot of confusion in the bible as well as misintrepretaions and it is here where people close their hearts. The interesting thing about the "ZERO" theory is that there is no confusion, no misinterpretations, and every language understands it. Everything in the scriptures can be validated and substantiated by the "ZERO" theory. [quote from John]"If they are unbelievers it reqiures God's action upon their hearts to bring them to a desire for Christ". John, where do you think I came up with the "ZERO" theory?(All that is done is done for Him) Why do you think I am willing to share it? |
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20 | So...what is your theory? | Gen 1:26 | zerotheory | 65874 | ||
Dear LionStrong: Thank you for your reply. You said: "In terms of mathematics zero is the point on the number line which separates negative and positive integers. One cannot do math with out it. In terms of things in the created realm zero IS nothing. To have zero apples is to have none. And there is One Eternal God, living and true. I submit that your theory of opposites is not only unbiblical but also faulty in itself." Let me bring a few thing about your statement to your attention. "ZERO is a point on the number line" (therefore it exists, it is not "NOTHING"...it is "SOMETHING) "seperates negative from positive"(It is the beginning and the End, but where exactly does that happen?) "To have zero apples is to have none"(Great point about the physical. Just because you have none doesn't mean that apples do not exist. Also, perhaps you had an apple and ate it, does the apple no longer exist or is it now part of you? Think about what you have said in relation to the number "0". With regards to mathematics "0" is not "nothing", every number or combination of numbers exist only because "0" exists, "0" is eternal. There is nothing unbiblical about the "ZERO" theory, actually it could be the most biblical thing next to the bible itself. What are your thoughts about [Numbers 1-36], have you read it? Why did God use numbers? Why did God command Moses to number everyone? |
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