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Results from: Notes Author: stokeyhk Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | baptismal regeneration - true or false | NT general Archive 1 | stokeyhk | 51378 | ||
Apollos "knew only the baptism of John." 'He taught about Jesus accurately in Ephesus.' Twelve men in Ephesus were baptized in "John's baptism." "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" and received holy spirit only afterwards! (Acts 18:24-26; 19:1-7) 1 Peter 3:21 states: 'Baptism saves you.' Its a "search for a good conscience" toward God. (TCNT) Clearly, then, the baptism must be valid and the good conscience maintained. (Matthew 3:1-8; 24:13) Stokeyhk. |
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2 | baptismal regeneration - true or false | NT general Archive 1 | stokeyhk | 51462 | ||
Its worth noting that the situation in Ephesus was some time after Acts 10. We do need "a proper understanding" of the situation in Acts 10. There's no record that anyone else received holy spirit before they were baptized, not even Jesus! Acts 1:8 says: "You will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea [Acts 2:1-8:3] and Samaria [Acts 8:4-40], and to the ends of the earth [Acts 9:1-10:48]." (Matthew 16:19) Cornelius and "all his family were devout and God-fearing." He "prayed to God regularly." His prayers had "been recorded" before God. (Acts 10:4, Weymouth) Why only "recorded"? Because not baptized yet? Peter was being prepared for this new feature in God's purpose. He stayed in Joppa "for some time with a tanner" named Simon. He was taught by means of a vision from God; he said: "Its against our law for a Jew to associate with [an uncircumsized] Gentile or visit him." (Acts 10:28) "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation." Note verses 45 and 48. Yes, "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." All these events clearly showed that God was now accepting Gentiles. (See Acts 11:1-18; 15:1-29) Stokeyhk. |
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3 | baptismal regeneration - true or false | NT general Archive 1 | stokeyhk | 51578 | ||
Sorry, I evidently didn't make myself clear. I should have said: "There's no record that anyone else was 'born again' by God's spirit before they were baptized." (Matthew 3:17; Mark 14:36; Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) Clearly, many others in the Bible received God's holy spirit before the time of John the Baptist. (Numbers 11:17; 1 Samuel 16:13; Luke 1:15) Proverbs 1:23 and Acts 5:32 are worthy of note: "Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you." 'God gives his holy spirit to them that obey him.' (King James Version) A question for you: What gives evidence that God's holy spirit dwells in a Christian? (2 Timothy 1:14) Stokeyhk. |
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4 | Who "inherit the earth"? | Matt 5:5 | stokeyhk | 55958 | ||
And where's that, Steve? Revelation 21:2. Incidently, I'm not saying those who go to heaven will return to the earth. "They are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10, AT) "Destruction of ungodly men," "laid bare"? Yes, "this world" will be done away with, but not planet earth. "The earth remains forever." (2 Peter 3:7, 10, NIV; Ecclesiastes 1:4) Stokey. |
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5 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55062 | ||
Hi, Ray: The capitalization of "man" was merely for emphasis, nothing more! Of course, Jesus was the greatest man who ever lived because he was perfect, tried and tested. However, he was totally human, since he was 'conceived' not like the angels who materialized. (Luke 1:31) Stokeyhk. |
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6 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55074 | ||
I believe Jesus was born three times: 1) Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14: "The firstborn of every creature." "The beginning of the creation of God." (KJV) 2) Luke 1:35: "That holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (KJV) 3) Jesus was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by resurrection from the dead." (Romans 1:4, KJV) In the first stage of Jesus' life he was a spirit son of God. In the second stage he was a human son of God. Now, in the final and eternal stage, he is again a "life-giving spirit." However, he now has greater authority. (See Matthew 28:18; Philippians 2:9-11; 1 Peter 3:22) 1 Corinthians 11:3 says: "The head of Christ is God." So as Ephesians 1:2, 3, 17 show "God our Father" is the "God of our Lord Jesus Christ." So, I believe God is the Almighty Father, "the most high," Jesus is God's firstborn Son, a "mighty God" but subject to God, yet at God's right hand, hence having the second highest position. (Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 9:6, 7; Philippians 2:11, KJV) Stokeyhk. |
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7 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55088 | ||
The Bible clearly shows "Jesus is a created spirit-being." He didn't 'take on the appearance of man' but was actually a human son of God the same as Adam. (1 Corinthians 15:45) Jesus then received "all authority in heaven and on earth" as given to him by God. (Matthew 28:18) Hebrews 5:8 shows he was obedient to God, for example. Stokey. |
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8 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55255 | ||
Doesn't the term "firstborn" refer to both position and chronology? Colossians 1:15, 16 says Christ is "the Firstborn and Lord of all creation. For in Him was created the universe of things in heaven and on earth . . . all were created, and exist, through and for him." (Weymouth, capitalizations are his.) This agrees with 1 Corinthians 8:6 which says: "For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH [again an intermediary] whom all things came and through whom we live." (Capitalizations are for emphasis only.) Further, 1 Corinthians 11:3, 27 say: "The head of the Christ is God" and "for he 'has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ." Is this clear to us? Interestingly, Colossians 1:18 says he is "the Firstborn from among the dead." Again position and chronology! This agrees with John 1:1-3. Verse 3 says: "Through him all things were made." "Through" indicates intermediacy. Revelation 19:13 calls Jesus "The Word of God." (KJV, capitalization KJV.) John 1:18 says: "No man hath seen God at any time." John 1:1 in the Greek clearly distinguishes between the two Gods mentioned by saying Jesus was "with the God." You say "APPOINTED" is "a more precise translation of Romans 1:4." Note the following translations: 1) NIV says: "Declared." 2) Weymouth says: "Decisively proved." 3) KJV says: "Declared," or "determined." 4) TCNT says: "Miraculously proved." 5) The Century Bible says: "Declared: Gr. 'determined.'" Is "to claim otherwise" outside the bounds of the Bible, though? Hebrews 1:8-12 does not prove that Jesus "is, has been, and always will be the one true God." Hebrews 1:9 says: "Thy God." That is Jesus' God! Further, John 17:1-3 shows that Jesus said his Father is "the only true God." How many persons did Isaiah see? Isaiah 6:8 records God as saying: "Who will go for us?" So, he saw God's glory and Jesus' glory. Yes, most of 'the sons' are in italics. So, Does this mean that Seth was not the son of Adam? Does this mean that Adam was not the son of God? Is this what Luke was saying? In Matthew 28:18, if "authority has been given," then Jesus didn't have it before. Hence, he could not be the equal of God, could he? Yes, as Hebrews 5:8 shows, Jesus served God. However, God Almighty doesn't serve anyone! Capitals are added by the translator's feelings and views. Jesus was transferred to Mary's womb. He did not inherit sin from Adam, so doesn't come within the scope of Hebrews 9:27, which, incidently, is primarily referring to Jewish high priests under the Law. The Bible (KJV) uses the terms: 1) "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:15. 2) "Born" in Luke 1:35. 3) "Firstborn" in Colossians 1:18. All are "born," so why not "births"? Acts 24:5 calls Jesus' followers: "The Nazarene heretics." (TCNT) I suppose it was a heresy from apostate Jewish worship. But remember what Jesus said: "You nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition." (Matthew 15:6) Clearly, the Trinity is not a BIBLE teaching! (Capitalizations are for emphasis!) Stokey. |
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9 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55513 | ||
Dear all: 1) Philippians 2:6, KJV, taken by itself, and according to this translation of the Greek, it would appear that Jesus considered it appropriate to be equal to God. However, consider the context first. (Philippians 2:3-11) a) Philippians 2:3-5 says: "In humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." (NIV) So, we should be humble and unselfish. Then Paul says: "Let this mind be in you." What mind or attitude? One of humility and unselfishness! Then he says: "Which was also in Christ Jesus." So what was Jesus' mind or attitude? One of humility and unselfishness. So in verse 6, would you say Jesus not 'thinking it robbery to be equal to the Most High God' is an example of humility and unselfishness? Of course not! It would completely undermine Paul's persuasive argument and convince no one. Then verse 7 says: "[Jesus] made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." This is genuine humility and unselfishness! Then verse 8 says: "He humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." Even a humiliating death. Then verse 9 says: "God also hath highly exalted him." So rather than proudly and selfishly exalting himself, Jesus was exalted by God. Finally, verse 11 shows how it was all for "the glory of God the Father." Not Jesus' own glory. b) Notice the NIV translation of verse 6: "[Christ Jesus] did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." 2) Romans 9:5 says: "Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (KJV) Notice these translations: a) "Theirs too (so far as natural descent goes) is the Christ. (Blessed for evermore be the God who is over all! Amen.)" (Moffat) b) "And of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God is over all be blessed for ever. Amen." (RSV) c) "From them, in natural descent, sprang the Messiah. May God, supreme over all, be blessed for ever! Amen." (NEB) d) "Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised for ever! Amen." (TEV) e) "From them came the Messiah (I speak of his human origins). Blessed forever be God who is over all! Amen." (NAB) Seems like Paul is saying God is over Jesus, too! That he is blessing God for having made all these provisions, including the Messiah. 3) "First born points to eternal preexistence." Why? He says: "We must carefully avoid any suggestion that Christ was the first of created things." Bias or sincerity? Strong's says firstborn is derived from: protos; foremost (in time, place, order or importance); and tikto; "to produce." Colossians 1:15: "The firstborn of every creature." A word is known by the company it keeps. Notice that this is in the passive tense. E.g.: i) He created all things. (Active) ii) In him all things were created. (Passive) iii) He lifted his leg. (Active) iv) In a sling his leg was lifted. (Passive) Jesus here is the instrumentality that God used to create all things. Ephesians 3:9 clearly says: "God, who created all things." (Active) Revelation 4:11 says: "[God] created all things." (Active) Colossians 1:18 says: "[Jesus is] the firstborn from the dead." The first resurrected from the dead? No. (1 Kings 17:22) The first to be resurrected to eternal, heavenly life? Yes. (John 3:13; Acts 2:34) So, yes, Jesus does have "the preeminence" in all things. 4) Romans 1:4. Strong's says "horizo" means "to mark out or bound ("horizon"), i.e. (fig.) to appoint, decree, specify:-declare, determine, limit, ordain." The question is, How many translators use "appoint" in Romans 1:4? 5) As far as the long list of scriptures you cited, Makarios, I'll quote McClintock and Strong's Cyclopedia which advocates the Trinity doctrine but acknowledges regarding Matthew 28:18-20, and the same reasoning could be used for the others, that this text: "Taken by itself, would not prove decisively either the personality of the three subjects mentioned, or their equality or divinity." What do you think about 1 Timothy 5:21, which says: "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels"? Would this indicate a Trinity? Or, Do we have four now? 6) "Only-begotten" means "single of its kind." Jesus is "the single of its kind" as regards being a son of God: God "gave his only-begotten Son." This word comes from Greek words that mean "sole" "single" and "cause to be." So, again Jesus was "born" or "begotten." Colossians 1:16 shows how Jesus can be "firstborn" and "only-begotten." "All other things were created" using Jesus as an agency or instrumentality. Jesus was created by God alone as "the first of his works." (Proverbs 8:22) Hence Jesus was created by God alone, using no instrumentality, being of a "single" kind among God's sons. (Job 1:6; 38:7) Stokey. |
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10 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55632 | ||
1) Colossians 1:15. The NKJV reads in part: "The firstborn over all creation." The KJV reads: "The firstborn of every creature." Notice the expression "the firstborn of." Here we're not concerned with "firstborn" by itself. (Hebrews 12:16) Rather its "the firstborn of." Each time this expression appears in the Bible before here, it refers to part of the group when speaking of living creatures. E.g. "the firstborn of Pharaoh," is one of Pharaoh's family, and "the firstborn of beasts," are themselves animals. (Exodus 11:5) So, everywhere else, "the firstborn of" is part of the group! To translate the Greek as "the firstborn over" changes it to a place of preeminence or authority. So, the question is: Does the Greek say "the firstborn over" or "the firstborn of"? Well, "the firstborn over" contradicts Revelation 3:14, NKJV, where Jesus himself says that he is "the Beginning of the creation of God." Whereas "the firstborn of" agrees with it and the Greek! 2) Notice the context: Verse 3: "We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." No equality there! Verse 16: "In him" (Int.) not "by him." Have you compared the translation of the Greek "panta" in Luke 13:2, NKJV? It translates it as "all [other]." Colossians 2:3 says: "In whom [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." What's the point of saying this? Verses 4 and 8 answer: "Lest anyone should deceive you." "Lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deception . . . not according to Christ." So Jesus possesses superior "wisdom and knowledge" as verse 9 shows: "For in him dwells all the fullness [put there by the Father, Colossians 1:19]." "All the fullness" of what? Verse 3 mentions "wisdom and knowledge." Verse 9, NKJV its "the Godhead." "The divinity." (Int.) "The Deity." (NIV) "The fulness of God's nature." (Weymouth) "The perfection of God."(LB) This word "Godhead" is mentioned three times in the KJV: (a) Acts 17:29; (b) Romans 1:20; (c) Colossians 2:9. Strong's says (a) means: "godlike (neut. as noun, divinity)." This indicates a quality in the neuter tense; (b) means: "divinity (abstract)"; (c) means: "divinity (abstract)." We can see it doesn't mean "God." Rather its abstract; a divine quality; spiritual qualities. This agrees with "all the treasures of [godly] wisdom and knowledge" and is in contrast with 'human philosophy and tradition.' 3) Colossians 3:1 says: "If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God." The "things above" are spiritual. Christ is not God himself, but "sitting at the right hand of God." 4) Philippians 2:6. The NKJV rendering does not harmonize with humility and unselfishness, rather the opposite. (Genesis 3:5) The New Jerusalem Bible says: Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped." What does the Greek word rendered "robbery" mean? Strong's says: "to seize." Lit. "snatching." It would be totally inappropriate for a sinful human to have the "selfish ambition" of being equal to God. Even Jesus, in the position of God's firstborn Son and in God's form, not a slave's form, still didn't have the "selfish ambition" of being equal with God. This would be a greater display of humility because a son is greater than "a slave"! 5) Romans 9:5. The question is, Why do some translations contain a period after "according to the flesh, Christ came" or "from Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race." Is it primarily to show whether Jesus is God or not? Well, consider the context and the Greek? Romans 15:6 records Paul as saying we should "glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." So that would mean Paul was contradicting himself, wouldn't it, if he meant to teach Jesus was God? The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel and Other Critical Essays says "[the (thing) according to flesh] in reading must be followed by a pause,-a pause which is lengthened by the special emphasis given to the [according to flesh] by the [the (thing)]." He says the preceding sentence is complete. Further he says the recounting of all the blessings given to the Israelites-"the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the Law, the service [of God], and the promises . . . the fathers and . . . the Christ"-"naturally suggests an ascription of praise and thanksgiving to God as the Being who rules over all; while a doxology is also suggested by the [Amen]." He says all the oldest manuscripts of this verse contain a period after "flesh." Then verses 6-24 point to God's authority, his being "over all." Stokey. |
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11 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55635 | ||
Running out of space. "Only-begotten." John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time." God "gave his only-begotten Son." (John 3:16) 'God sent his Son into the world.' (John 3:17) Not Mary's "only-begotten Son" but God's. He was such before he was sent into the world, yes all the time he was "in the bosom position with the Father." Jesus "has always been." Shouldn't it be: Jesus has "before Abraham" been? (John 8:57) A question for you: If Jesus is "God the Son," why did he call his Father "the only true God"? (John 17:1-3) Stokey. |
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12 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55696 | ||
1) Yes, "Beginning" in Revelation 3:14 is "arche." Yes, Strong is right! It means "beginning." Your 2nd quote contradicts your statement: 'not the first in a sequence.' 2) "Godhead" in Webster's means "divine nature or essence: DIVINITY." "Godhood" means the same. See Strong's nos. 2304, 2305, 2320. 5) Mss. A, B, C, L. Stokey. |
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13 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55705 | ||
You're accusing me of making a doctrine out of one scripture. There are hundreds. You say "John 17:3 must be examined in the totality of scripture." Yet, that is not what you are doing. You are examining it in the selective use of scripture. You say: "Jesus is called God in John 1:1, 14; 8:58; Col. 2:9; Heb 1:8." However, this is true according to the KJV only in John 1:1 and Hebrews 1:8. John 1:18 says: "No one has seen God at any time." Moffat says the Word "was divine." (John 1:1) Hebrews 1:9 says: "God, Your God." RS translates this as: "You divine throne." (Psalm 45:6, addressed to God's king.) Jude 4, KJV, "Denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Mark 10:18. You say this means "Jesus is not good," not Jehovah's Witnesses! Again you say, "according to Witness logic.' The Bible does not tell us that Jehovah is the only savior. (Nehemiah 9:27; Isaiah 19:20; Acts 13:23; Titus 1:3, 4; Jude 25, NIV) Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Jesus and some of his disciples performed miracles. John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16-17 show that God created all things "through" Jesus. Jesus is not the Source. You sound like you are just repeating what you have heard. If you don't trust Watchtower publications, use a concordance and a variety of older translations as well, preferably an interlinear. Do you believe everything "www.carm.org" tells you? Stokey. |
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14 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55711 | ||
1) Reuben was "the firstborn of" Jacob's children. So still part of the group. Yes, the word "for" gives the reason for the statement "the firstborn of all creation." Why can we say Jesus is the firstborn? Because all other creation came after and "through" him. (Colossians 1:16) The word "through" shows that Jesus is not the Source. As for Genesis 1:1, "the heavens" were not the first creation of God. (Revelation 3:14) Proverbs 8:27 says: "When he prepared the heavens, I was there." Genesis 1:26 says: "God said, Let us MAKE man in our image." (Colossians 1:15a) Verse 27, however, says: "God CREATED man." Jesus agreed with this in Matthew 19:4. 2) Strong's nos. 2304, 2305, 2320. 3) Genuine Christians are "in God," too. 4) Yes, Philippians 2:6 does not harmonize with humility! Being "equal with God" is not the same as 'being God.' The Navajo translation of the Bible was published in 1985, after 41 years of work! "Jehovah" appears in the Navajo Bible in Psalm 68:4. The brochure: "Enjoy Life on Earth Forever" was released in the Navajo language by Jehovah's Witnesses in 1995. Say "Hello!" to the local brothers in the Kingdom Halls in the Navajo and Hopi resevations. Stokey. |
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15 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55729 | ||
The teaching that Michael, the archangel is Jesus Christ before he came to earth and since his return to heaven is not exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses. The name of Michael is found in Daniel 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9; Revelation 12:7. The term "the archangel" is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NIV) and Jude 9. Daniel 10:13 says: "Michael, one of the chief princes." Daniel 10:21 says: "Michael, your [Daniel's] prince." Daniel 12:1 says: "Michael, the great prince who protects your [Daniel's] people." Jude 9 says: "Michael the archangel." Revelation 12:7 says: "Michael and his angels." Michael means "Who is like God?" This points to the fact that Jehovah God is without like, or equal, and that Michael is the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah's sovereignty and destroying God's enemies. At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NIV), the command of Jesus for the resurrection to begin is described as "the voice of the archangel," and Jude 9 says the archangel is Michael. If the designation "archangel" applied, not to Jesus, but to other angels, then the reference to "the voice of the archangel" would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God. Notice the term is never plural in the Bible, thus implying that there is only one: "THE archangel." Revelation 12:7-12 describes "Michael and his angels" defeating Satan and his angels in connection with kingly authority being conferred on Christ. (2 Thessalonians 1:7) Jesus is the one who leads the armies in heaven to destroy the nations of the world. Jesus is the one who will 'crush Satan's head' also. (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 3:16) Daniel 12:1 associates the 'standing up of Michael' to act with authority with an unprecedented "time of distress" during "the time of the end." (Daniel 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21, 40) This fits the experience of the nations in Revelation 19:11-16 and Matthew 24:21. So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to the earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God. Stokey. |
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16 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55877 | ||
Come on, Steve, you know I'm not being deceptive. The definition of the Greek word is from a Greek dictionary-Strong; the meaning of the English word from an English dictionary. Stokey. |
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17 | Who is Jesus Christ? | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55883 | ||
1. Matthew 4:10; John 8:54; Matthew 22:41-45; Psalm 110:1; Philippians 2:9-11. 2. You say plural is "more than 2." The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures says Elohim is "almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute." It denotes "greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God." 3. Which translation of Titus 2:13 agrees with "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior"? (Titus 1:4) You say the NIV "correctly renders Titus 2:13" and "either the translators did not know or deliberately ignored a principle of Greek grammar." Why, then, does the NIV render the same principle as "our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" and relegate "God and Lord, Jesus Christ" to a footnote, but not do the same in Titus 2:13? The Greek Testament states that "of the great God and of the Savior" "satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle's way of writing." Stokey |
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18 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55890 | ||
Daniel 10:13 was written before Jesus came to earth and before he received "all authority in heaven and on earth." Daniel 12:1 during "the time of the end" calls him "the great prince." (Isaiah 9:6) Further, during the time of the end, Michael has angels: "Michael and HIS angels." 2 Thessalonians 1:7 says: "The Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with HIS powerful angels." This links with the unprecendented "time of distress" of Daniel 12:1. Of course, as I mentioned in Revelation 19:16, it would be easy for Michael to be stronger than all earthly kings since the superhuman Satan and his angels were "not strong enough" to defeat him. We can hardly compare Michael's 'not daring condemn the devil with insulting words regarding a dispute' with "Go away Satan!" who wanted Jesus to worship him! "The Lord himself will come down from heaven: 1) with a loud command, 2) with the voice of an archangel and 3) with the trumpet call of God." So, the voice expressing Jesus' "loud command" should logically be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from someone who has "all authority in heaven and on earth." It would be like describing the President as 'commanding' with the voice of a Vice-President. Stokey |
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19 | Who is Jesus Christ? | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55943 | ||
BradK, The point is Jesus is not referred to as both God and Savior in Titus! Paul refers to 2 Saviors: 1) Titus 1:3; 2:10; 3:4: "Our Savior, God." 2) Titus 1:4; 2:13; 3:6: "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior." Remember Acts 13:23: "God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus." Stokey. |
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20 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55949 | ||
Jesus is a "Mighty God." (Isaiah 9:6) "I am the First ["A, 'Firstborn.'"] and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever." (Revelation 1:17, 18, New World Translation) "These are the things that he says, 'the First and the Last,' who became dead and came to life [again]." (Revelation 2:8, NWT) Does the expression, "The First and the Last" equate Jehovah with Jesus? The context of Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12 refers to Godship. The context of Revelation 1:17, 18; 2:8 refers to resurrection. Revelation 1:5 calls Jesus "The Firstborn from the dead." Jesus was resurrected by Jehovah. (Romans 8:11) However, Jesus has "the keys of death and Hades" so others will be resurrected by Jesus, making him the first and the last resurrected by Jehovah. (John 11:25) So, of course it doesn't equate Jehovah with Jesus whom Jesus called "my God" three times and referrred to himself as "the beginning of the creation by God" who "created all things." Yes, those in heaven "worshiped God" saying "Praise Jah, you people!" (Revelation 3:12, 14; 4:8, 11; 7:11, 12; 11:16, 17; 19:1-6) We've heard it so many times before! Oh, by the way, surprisingly, the Good News Bible renders Acts 20:28 this way: "Through the death of his own Son." Stokey. |
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