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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | This generation will not pass away.... | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214209 | ||
Shalom skccab, You are soooo right when you say, "I've always understood that verse to mean that the generation living when "these things" begin will not die out before the great tribulation is ushered in...:o)" But in light of these scriptures, which generation was Jesus speaking of? And why? Let scripture speak. John the Baptist spoke to them about the wrath to come. Jesus during his ministry spoke many times using the term "this generation" and what "they" were like. I have capitalized for emphasis. Matt.3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O GENERATION OF VIPERS, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Matt.11:16 But whereunto shall I liken THIS GENERATION? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, Matt.12:34,39,41,42,45 34.) O GENERATION OF VIPERS, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 39.) But he answered and said unto them, AN EVIL AND ADULREROUS GENERATION seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 41.) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with THIS GENERATION, AND SHALL CONDEMN IT: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, BEHOLD, A GREATER THAN JONAS IS HERE. 42.) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with THIS GENERATION, AND SHALL CONDEMN IT: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, BELOLD, A GREATER THAN SOLOMON IS HERE. 45.) Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. EVEN SO SHALL IT BE ALSO UNTO THIS WICKED GENERATION. Matt.16:4 A WICKED AND ADULTEROUS GENERATION seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. Matt.17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O FAITHLESS AND PERVERSE GENERATION, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. Matt.23:33,36 33.) Ye serpents, YE GENERATION OF VIPERS, HOW CAN YOU ESCAPE the damnation of hell? 36.) Verily I say unto you, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL COME UPON THIS GENERATION. Matt.24:34 VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU Verily, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE FULFILLED. Mark 8:12,38 12.) And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth THIS GENERATION seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto THIS GENERATION. 38.) WHOSOEVER THEREFORE SHALL BE ASHAMED OF ME AND OF MY WORDS IN THIS ADULTEROUS AND SINFUL GENERATION; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 9:19 He answereth him, and saith, O FAITHLESS GENERATION, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. Mark 13:30 VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE . Luke 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O GENERATION OF VIPERS, WHO HATH WARNED YOU TO FLEE FROM THE WRATH TO COME? Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of THIS GENERATION? and to what are they like? Luke 9:41 And Jesus answering said, O FAITHLESS AND PERVERSE GENERATION, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. Luke 11:29-32,50,51 29.) And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, THIS IS AN EVIL GENERATION: THEY SEEK AFTER A SIGN; AND THERE SHALL NO SIGN BE GIVEN IT, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. 30.) For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, SO SHALL ALSO THE SON OF MAN BE TO THIS GENERATION. 31.) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of THIS GENERATION, AND CONDEMN THEM: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, BEHOLD, A GREATER THAN SOLOMON IS HERE. 32.) The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with THIS GENERATION, AND SHALL CONDEMN IT: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, BEHOLD, A GREATER THAN JONAS IS HERE. 50.) THAT THE BLOOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS, which was shed from the foundation of the world, MAY BE REQUIRED OF THIS GENERATION, 51.) From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, IT SHALL BE REQUIRED OF THIS GENERATION. Luke 17:25 BUT FIRST MUST HE SUFFER MANY THINGS, AND BE REJECTED OF THIS GENERATION. Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. food for thought:-() Vintage68 |
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2 | This generation will not pass away.... | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214211 | ||
Hi John "Matthew 3:7, "Generation of vipers" equals brood of vipers." Jesus was talking to the people present with Him, I would then say that they would fall into the catigory of the people in 24:34. His contemporaries. "24:34, "This generation" equals the persons then living contemporary with Christ." You have made the point, they were the contemporaries of Christ. All of the other verses that I listed, were to be able to see that both John, and Jesus were talking about, and to the people of that Generation, not to some generation in the far distant future, in particular us at the end of the age. All of the verses used are in context to the time of Jesus, they were also used by Him, about the Jews then living in Israel. So they should not to be confused with any other use of the word generation. Vintage68 |
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3 | humility, help me understand. | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214538 | ||
Hi justme The answer that (humbled) gave is confusing at best, even when it is understood. But the idea isn't risky at all, or any fear of temptation even though it is farout. To fully grasp his answer, you at first have to understand that he said it was an (EMPTY) bottle. "I'm a christian, and I carry an empty bottle of an extremely high alcoholic substance around in my back pack everytime I go to work." Vintage68 |
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4 | Divine intervention? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214782 | ||
Hi Morant61 The case I put forward is this. There is not (one) place in the Old Testament where the word steward is used, where it is not referring to a person that takes care of the household, ie, belongings of another. In the New Testament there is only (one) time where this same definition can be used. Every other place it is only used in relation to the person dealing with the spiritual things of God. We all know that every (Spiritual Blessing) still belongs to God. We are His (slaves, servants, sons) The illustration of the steward in Luke 16 is a parable. Are you saying, we are to apply a literal interpretation to a parable, in order for us to understand the spiritual truth contained within? There are only two ways in which a parable can be understood. Are we to accept a literal understanding, to a spiritual teaching? If you would look at Matt.13:10-13 you will find a description, on all of the aspects of a parable. Your use of Luke 16:13 is only to be understood as summation of the preceding verses. Nothing more than a lawyer would do in a court room, for a final clarification of the facts. When you say. "Further, Luke 16:11 specifically advises us to be "...trustworthy in handling worldly wealth." "As His servants, everything we have is His and has been entrusted into our care." My answer is, we are no different than the people of the world, God gives them money too! Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Is there anywhere in the bible, where God says, He will be holding "US" to a higher standard than the people of the world, as far as the money He gives to us is concerned? In Acts 5:1 Ananias, and Sapphira, were they judged as bad stewards, over what God had entrusted into their care, or was it because they lied to the Holy Spirit? Therefore we can go back to Luke 16:13 "You cannot serve God, and Mammom" (That is the principle, we should gain) thereby conducting our lives accordingly. But not in the sense of stewards. My point in using this story is, specifically for what Peter said to Ananias, and Sapphira Acts 5:4 4.) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Do we not also have power over what God has entrusted into our care? When He gives to us, does it stay His, or are we only holding it for Him? We pay tithe, thereby God says the rest is ours? I am not trying to split hairs, but when we are doing exegesis, do we not try our best to find the exact correct Greek, or Hebrew words for the passage we are studying in order for us to better understand any given verse? Should we not be doing the same when speaking our own language, expressing our beliefs to others? I understand you know Greek pretty well. Can you show me where the word (steward) in the bible is used for a person that has their own belongings? Or is that a different Greek word? Vintage68 |
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5 | Oboth to Moab direction | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214796 | ||
Hi unicorn Click this number in SEARCH - 214555 :-) Vintage68 |
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6 | Can Angels repent? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 214905 | ||
Hi Jay123 This is the only place I could find, that came close to the same kind of sin that the angels committed. according to the Greek. (hamartano) (Verb) Lit., "to miss the Mr. ," is used in the NT (a) of "sinning" against God, (1) by angels, 2Pe. 2:4; (2) by man, Mt. 27:3,4; Matt.27:3,4 3.) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4.) Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? See thou to that. 2 Peter 2:4 4.) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; There has been a debate about this for centuries, as to when, and how the angels could have sinned. I do not believe the angels were created with a free will. Neither did God give them an opportunity to repent. We on the other hand, have been created in the image, and likeness of God, the angels were not. Can you think of any other kind of sin an angel could commit, other than the one just spoken of? Which I believe to be the actual sin of rebellion against Gods rule over them, we do not have that consciousness of rebellion against Gods rule over our lives, before salvation. We can sin against God, or man in a great variety of ways. I can't pass up this opportunity. sorry :-) Using your own answer to your own question. Even though your ability to repent of your Question was taken away, because there were no edit options as you say, you still have taken the steps necessary in trying to Repent. Thereby gaining forgiveness. The angels Didn't Vintage68 |
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7 | An Enemy Has Done This! (Matt 13:24-30) | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 215555 | ||
Hi Doc in your post, you say. "Of the 33 parables of Christ, how many of them were for people other than the disciples? Two perhaps? Maybe three?" Would you be so kind, as to provide me with this list of the 33, with the possible 2 or 3 you have mentioned, I would really appreciate it. Because in this chapter alone, there are 4 parables spoken to the people. you go on to say. "Even the passage in Matthew 13 (which you cited) regarded the Lord's answer to an explicit question regarding parables from His disciples." What are you intimating by the fact He was only answering an explicit question? Unless I have missed something, Matt.13 is the chapter in which the question was originally asked, which started this thread. Therefore any answer Jesus might have given, was in direct relation to the context of this chapter. I offer as a conformation, of that answer made by Jesus, these two verses, you will find they are saying virtually the same things, as do the verses 10 - 17 previously posted, But these two, are not in relation to any question asked. 34.) All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35.) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. welcome back Vintage68 |
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8 | An Enemy Has Done This! (Matt 13:24-30) | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 215592 | ||
Hi John Just a Quick question??? When Paul says to Timothy "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. What scripture was Paul referring to? Was there a canon of scripture at the time of this letter to Timothy? 170 AD produced the first known Christian attempt at an (Old Testament) canon. The Council of Carthage, a local north Africa council of bishops created the same list of canonical books in 397. This is the council which many Protestant and Evangelical Christians take as the authority for the (New Testament) canon of books. The Old Testament canon from the same council is identical to Roman Catholic canon today. ..... Catholic Biblical Apologetics, © Copyright 1985-2004, Paul Flanagan and Robert Schihl Vintage68 |
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9 | An Enemy Has Done This! (Matt 13:24-30) | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 215598 | ||
Hi John you ask: how do we reconcile the statement: "To be a teaching tool as some have espoused, is a false assumption." When we hold it up against 2 Tim 3:16 You are using (2 Tim. 3:16) as the proof text, or your rule so to speak, by which we should judge. Lets look at that rule, This letter was written after Jesus had ascended, so then, using your understanding, ( reasoning), Jesus was not using His parables as a teaching tool. Period. On the grounds, they were not scripture when He spoke them. In other words, He was not Teaching scripture, He was Creating scripture. He was speaking words, that have since become scripture, therefore we can now use these scriptures as teaching tools, as per. 2 Tim 3:16 you go no to say: "Can you please give us some Scripture or perhaps some reputable commentary to lend some support to so bold a statement?" Are you asking for a sign? I will use the most reputable authority I can possibly think of. And His own commentary. 1.) A parable was a tool Jesus used, to tell truth to the Jewish people, without them ever being able, to come to the knowledge of that truth. Matt. 13:10-11 10.) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11.) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, (but to them it is not given.) Therefore from the mouth of Jesus He says He is "NOT TEACHING THEM" anything! If you are of a different opinion, what He was teaching them? 2) The use of the parables of Jesus were for the express purpose of Him fulfilling Prophesy. To be a teaching tool as some have espoused, is a false assumption. Matt.13:13,14 13.) Therefore speak I to them in parables: (because they seeing see not); (and hearing they hear not), (neither do they understand). 14.) (And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias), which saith, (By hearing ye shall hear), (and shall not understand); (and seeing ye shall see), (and shall not perceive): By His own mouth He says, prophesy is being fulfilled, this is why I use Parables. No other reason is given. Jesus was speaking to the (Jewish people), knowing they (could not, would not, and did not), ever come to the knowledge to be found within His parables. Therefore how is it a teaching tool for their benefit? Again I ask you what was He teaching them? Vintage68 |
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10 | An Enemy Has Done This! (Matt 13:24-30) | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 215601 | ||
Hi Doc. you say 1.) "The doctrine of sola scriptura helps us understand the many aspects of the Word of God. When we consider things like the sufficiency and the necessity of Scripture, we come to understand that God has providentially provided at any given time in human history all that is needful for "all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience." Whether the divinely inspired writer realized that he was penning the Word or not, is really neither here nor there." ---------- I Agree 2.) "Even in the times of the primitive church, we have clear assurances concerning what the Holy Spirit was providing in terms of revelation of the Word of God to His own. Peter, consequently, assures us that these precious epistles are part of Scripture. Consider the following:" ---------- I Agree 3.) "Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things [the denouement and consummation of God's purposes in redemptive history], be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:14-16 NASB)" ----------- I Agree 4.) As R. C. Sproul put it once, we have a fallible canon of infallible Scriptures. We may be confident, though, that God has assuredly provided and protected the Word for us (Hebrews 1:1-2). ------- I Agree Doc, What would give you the Idea, I do not believe these things you have just posted to me? If they are in a response to my post to John, I may have worded things wrong, thereby giving you that impression, I am sorry for that. It was my intent to only ask a legitimate question of John. For the purpose of clarification, before I posted him. His statement to me was worded in such a way, I was of the understanding, his (Johns) statements were based on knowledge "HE" now possess, 2000 yrs. after the parables were spoken, having all of the canon within his possession, and that I was going against that canon. I am not. I am not saying that the parables cannot be used as a Teaching Tool. I am saying that Jesus did not use them that way, for the reasons I have stated. This is a Study Bible Forum, if I am in error, show me the error, everyone wants the bible to be read literally, you can't get any more literal than taking what has been said at face value. Quoting it. I have not used any other verse within the whole canon of scripture, I have not jumped around from book to book, attempting to draw together what I have stated, only those verses to be found within Matt.13 itself. I have done nothing other than voice my exegeses of the chapter. So Doc, in conclusion, please take the time to go over what I have posted on this subject, my conclusions. Then post me back, on where the error has been made. Thank you for your time, I respect your opinion. Vintage68 |
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11 | An Enemy Has Done This! (Matt 13:24-30) | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 215602 | ||
Hi John: May as well have it all This would be the second part. 3.) As far as it being a teaching tool for his disciples, it really isn't a teaching tool for them either, on the grounds, if Jesus was not speaking to the Jews, he would have given the understanding, knowledge and wisdom to be found in the parables, to the disciples in plain language, just as He had always done, with everything else He had ever taught them. Matt. 13:16,17 16.) But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17.) For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Jesus did not use parables with the disciples, as he did with the people, because by His own mouth, He has already told us the reason the parables were spoken. My contention is, Jesus spoke openly, clearly, and easily to be understood by the disciples. I therefore offer for your approval, these scriptures as an evidence of that. 1.) whenever the disciples would ask Jesus to explain a parable he would always do so. Matt.13:36 36.) Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 2.) Whenever Jesus would speak to them, there were no hidden meanings, as in the parables He was speaking to the people. Matt. 13:44-46 44.) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. 45.) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46.) Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. Matt. 13:47-51 47.) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48.) Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49.) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50.) And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 51.) Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. If the information was openly given, it is no longer a parable. It does by definition become a teaching. We all know that every word that Jesus spoke could be called teaching, couldn't it? But it does not fit the criteria of the Parable as a teaching tool, the way you define it. But as Jesus said Himself, a Parable did not teach anybody anything. We have already heard from Jesus, the people would (hear and not understand, see and not perceive) Again what was Jesus teaching? But this time I also ask, who was He teaching in the form of a parable? 4.) The truth to be found in the parables of Jesus, are always, without exception, only about the Kingdom of God (Heaven). the kingdom of heaven is like unto, the kingdom of heaven is like unto, the kingdom of heaven is like unto He who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Vintage68 |
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12 | Why do we delay baptism, not His Supper? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 216774 | ||
Hi justme Jesus Himself declares what the purpose of baptism is for. John 3:1-9 Nowhere within the recitation to Nicodemus, does Jesus mention either inclusion or exclusion within the body. The account of the communion of Christ, by Paul does not say anything about the inclusion, or the excluding of anyone on account of baptism. 1Cor. 11:17-34 but in the middle of these verses. Paul says in vs. 29 "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body." It could be asked therefore, does someone that has not been baptized, have any reservations for not doing so? It might be advisable then, whenever having a communion service, to read these verses in 1 Cor. letting everyone decide, with particular emphasis placed upon verse 29 and the consequences. Vintage68 |
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13 | Why do we delay baptism, not His Supper? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 216778 | ||
Hi Searcher56 Are you of the opinion that the Church in general delays baptism? The biggest reason I have seen personally, would be to have a big Baptismal Service, with a lot of people being Baptized, like on an Easter Sunday, it makes it special for the person being baptized. But the reason for these types of services taking place, usually about 6 mo. apart would probably be for the economic reason of the cost to fill the pool. Other than that, your guess is as good as min. Vintage68 |
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14 | Why is the Christian Church so divided? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 217335 | ||
Hi John you say Though not all Scripture is written to us, and words spokin are not all spoken to us, it is all still for us. 2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;" You seem to have a full understanding of Matt.13:14,15 . Please, apply 2 Tim. 3:16. Just how can these verses concern us, other than knowing, "That Generation" were blinded, as Prophesied in Isaiah? Vintage68 |
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15 | Why is the Christian Church so divided? | Bible general Archive 4 | Vintage68 | 217340 | ||
Hi John I concur with you 100 per. cent. when you say, "Plenty of folks today can read the same word of God and not see though they see and not hear though we can read it to them. Most of the world at large is spiritually blind and deaf to God's word as we speak." But when you say this, your just wrong. "The Scriptures do not say it was only for that generation, but I think common sense would dictate only that it applied to them at that time." Mat 13:14,15 14 ( And ( in them ) is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, ) which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 ( For ( this peoples ) heart is waxed gross, ) and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. When Jesus himself says in them the prophesy is fulfilled, and this peoples heart is waxed gross. There is no mistaking who Jesus is talking about, it isn't a piece of scripture that is given to interpretation, it says what it says.This was the beginning point of the blindness of the Jews, towards the Gospel, Paul says. Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. The rendering only apply's to the Jews. They as a people cannot come to the knowledge of the truth, every other nation could if it wanted to. People in general are blind as you say, but GOD has blinded the Jews. Vintage68 |
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16 | Do you think there are any churches that | NT general | Vintage68 | 216364 | ||
Hi John With the question being: "Do you think there are any churches that are the most like the early church of Jerusalem?" Do you really think a Messianic Fellowship would not have more of a chance to be closer in it's worship services, to what would have been in Jerusalem as the first church, seeing that it was, a Jewish Messianic fellowship itself, rather than the regular denominational churches of today? We, the churches of today, follow more of the Paulene pattern of worship don't we? These churches were almost devoid of Jews, with the exception of the Judaizers, that only came to disrupt. When all that is being talked about is appearance, mode of operation, not doctrinal differences. But you are right, "Otherwise we would just fallow the pattern and be far too comfortable, not ever taking a close look at the heart of the matter of our worship." We wouldn't want that to happen. Vintage68 |
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17 | Do you think there are any churches that | NT general | Vintage68 | 216379 | ||
Hi MJH Would you be so kind as to supply a definition of ( anagronisims ) it looks like one of those words that would have a very interesting definition. I would like to put it in my word file, on the off chance I might have an occasion to use it. Vintage68 |
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18 | In search of the truth | NT general | Vintage68 | 216900 | ||
Hi Doc. "All of those activities of the church specifically prescribed in Scripture are called a "means of grace." In other words, they are activities by which God has promised and decreed (by positive and sovereign institution) to channel His grace." This statement of yours, is it in truth, what all of the Religions (Christendom) believe? Are there scriptures for backing up these claims? Or is it in effect the doctrine of Reformed Theology? "Consequently, we cannot state that something "happens" when a believer is Baptized. Instead, it reflects something that has already "happened" spiritually in regeneration." Again you make a very sweeping statement, as though it is truth. Isn't this again, the interpretation of Reformed Theology? Where is it found in scripture, (baptism), "reflects something that has already "happened" spiritually in regeneration." If I am understanding you correctly, you have interchanged the word (regeneration) for the word (salvation) if I am correct in my assumption, where is this found in scripture, that they are in actuality the same event? "It is "to be unto the party baptized, a sign of his fellowship with Him [Christ], in His death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into Him; of remission of sins; and of giving up into God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life." If it is only a "sign" as you say, is it therefore only a symbolic gesture on the part of the believer, that nothing actually happens when baptism takes place? Is baptism merely a means by which the believer has fellowship with Christ, this fellowship being the symbolic identification with the death and resurrection of Christ? If believers really don't die to the flesh, how then does engrafting actually take place if baptism is only a sign (symbolic)? How is it possible for the believer to "live and walk in newness of life" if the whole baptismal experience is only a symbolic gesture? Vintage68 |
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19 | Leave possesions to realize GOD | Genesis | Vintage68 | 215137 | ||
Hi keliy The story you cite as a parable in Luke 18:18-30 is not a parable, it was a conversation that took place between Jesus and a certain ruler. It really happened as stated. So in actuality, when His disciples asked Him, who can even be saved? And Jesus said, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God." He was really saying, that if all men, would only follow Him, as he was saying for them to do, God would make it possible for them to do so. Because man in his own power can do nothing. The rich ruler with all his wealth, and self-righteousness in his keeping of the law, the one thing he lacked more than anything else was "FAITH". If you would take the time to read the three chapters, Matt.19, Mark 10, Luke 18 You will see Jesus is teaching on having FAITH above everything else. His teaching on faith is then followed by the rich young ruler discussion. Mark 10:14 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It isn't just the fact he had great riches, it was that he had more faith in the riches he had, than he did in God. The whole thing is more than salvation, and living a Christian life. Vintage68 |
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20 | and you will be like God | Gen 3:5 | Vintage68 | 216578 | ||
Hi Flinkywood As Doc has so aptly stated, "Such questions cannot be answered from Scripture." I therefore offer up to you this, my speculation on the matter. Satan starts the temptation of Eve with the statement. "You shall not surly die" that is the seed of DOUBT, doubting God at his word. People have been led into all kinds of sins by just doubting that God said - - DON'T. Eve saw the tree was good for food, and pleasant to the eyes. That was a DESIRE for something forbidden. People have an innate nature towards the forbidden. You might say Eve was created in the image of God, but she wasn't she was created in the image of "MAN". Haven't you ever asked yourself why did Satan tempt Eve, instead of Adam? Adam wasn't tempted, he just gave his authority to Eve, and ate. If Eve was PERFECT, then she could not have been tempted any more than Jesus was. Jesus "WAS" PERFECT and when he was tempted he overcame. Augustine, wasn't as perceptive as one might think, if he wasn't aware of the possibility for two other sins as a potential cause. So how can one definitively say it comes down to self-love to the point of contempt for God? Vintage68 |
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