Results 1 - 20 of 36
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Results from: Notes Author: Michael T. Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | Michael T. | 197095 | ||
Hi, The good news is that predestination is a Fact, not a theory, and the glorious news is that it, i.e. Predestination, has been an established fact even before Creation. I know this for an absolute certainty because it says so in the Bible. If you wish to see it for yourself, as I really hope you’ll do, take a look at chapter 1 of the New Testament Letter to the Ephesians, verses 3 to 11. Also look up chapter 8 of the Letter to the Romans, verses 28 through 30. Although we may disagree, that needn’t hinder us from discussing this topic of Predestination together if you wish. Cheers, Michael |
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2 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | Michael T. | 197096 | ||
Hi, You said: “I do believe your interpretation of Divine Predestination. I guess where I disagree is interpretation of Election. In the verse you listed (2 Thessalonians 2:13), I interpret this as follows: Paul is writing to a group of believers and when he refers to "God has chosen (elected) you from the beginning for salvation", he's not telling them that they are special because God had pre-chosen them individually, but God had made a provision for them to be saved and they are special (the "Elect" or in today's terms "the born-again" or "believers") because they accepted God's gift and chose to follow Christ.” My comments: You may wish to consider Acts 13:48 which “puts the horse before the cart and in doing so, totally reverses your idea that Election is the * result * or the effect of faith. Acts 13:48 - “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Note the order in Acts 13:48n. It does NOT say “ . . . as many as believed were ordained to eternal life.” Instead, what Acts 13:48b DOES say is: “ . . . as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Thus believing on Christ unto salvation is the Effect – not the Cause – of God’s Election and Pre-destination. Christ’s statement in Gospel of John 10:26 is also very relevant to this issue because Christ Himself in His full Divine authority, makes it very clear that Faith and thus salvation is the effect of God’s Election, not the cause, as you’ve incorrectly assumed. Gospel of John 10:26 - “But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.” The Bible teaches that the good news that Salvation in all of its aspects, is always entirely by God’s grace. To put it another way, whether we know it or not and whether we accept it or not, we are always dependent upon God at every step. Personally, I wouldn’t want it any other way because although I know that GOD is always infinitely worthy of trust and altogether reliable in every way, I myself am not. So I'm most grateful that my salvation always depends, not on me, but only on Him; i.e. on GOD through Jesus Christ. The bad news is that if our salvation depended on us, then we’d all end up in Hell. Even though we may disagree, I'm willing to talk this topic through with you on a friendly basis if you wish. Michael |
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3 | What does Bible teach on election? | Bible general Archive 1 | Michael T. | 197112 | ||
Greetings Azure, Thanks for helping me in my navigation of the Forum. It's much appreciated. Michael |
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4 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197538 | ||
Since the Scriptures confirm (refer Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:29-30) that Election and Pre-destination to salvation are Divinely-accomplished Facts which were completed by God the Father from before the creation of the universe, this itself proves that Christ's atonement was always intended to be limited; i.e. not universal in its practical extent. Election as such is discriminatory in principle; i.e. an *election* inevitably implies an *exclusion from election.* Therefore, the Biblical facts of election and pre-destination to salvation inevitably implies that there will be an exclusion from the elective choice, which in this context is an exclusion from salvation of the non-elect; i.e. the Reprobate. Election to salvation and its inevitable corollary of Reprobation are both implied in John 3:16. John 3:16 in effect divides the entire human race into two groups; (a) those are given God's gift of saving faith [Romans 12:3; Titus 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Acts 13:48; John 10:26; Acts 18:27, etc.] and who, impelled by God’s sovereign grace, believe on and trust in Christ the only-begotten Son of God and who are then given everlasting life, and (b) all the remainder; i.e. all unbelievers, a.k.a. the Reprobate or non-elect, in respect of whom it was always the will of GOD that they should be excluded from salvation, and who all inevitably perish in their sin and unbelief [Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:41; Revelation 21:8]. The wide-spread but sadly mistaken superstition that salvation depends upon the decision of unregenerate and therefore spiritually-dead and spiritually-blind people, has no basis in the Scriptures. Instead, Christ and His Apostles repeatedly teach and emphasise in the Scriptures that the sovereignty of God – Who works all things according to the counsel of His own will (refer Ephesians 1:11b) - always omnipotently prevails throughout the entire salvation process, from before Creation to ultimate glory. |
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5 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197729 | ||
Greetings, Tim, Tim: First of all, welcome to the forum! Michael: Thanks. I’m looking forward to exploring the Scriptures with you. Michael T. wrote: "Since the Scriptures confirm (refer Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:29-30) that Election and Pre-destination to salvation are Divinely-accomplished Facts which were completed by God the Father from before the creation of the universe, this itself proves that Christ's atonement was always intended to be limited; i.e. not universal in its practical extent." Tim Moran replied: “The problem with this statement is that it is based upon assumption concerning the meanings of these terms rather that what Scripture actually says. For instance, did Christ only die for the 'elect'? Scripture never says such a thing.” Michael T.: You’re mistaken, because you’ve a mere cursory consideration to these passages of Scripture. I suggest that you re-examine those two passages of Scripture’ namely, Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:28-30, and also consider their implications. These two passages conclusively confirm that Election and Pre-destination are Divinely-established facts, and prove that salvation in all its aspects and the extent thereof have always been determined and governed by the sovereign will of GOD. Please also carefully consider 2 Timothy 1:9; and 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and their implications. Are you aware of Christ’s statements in the Scriptures that declare and confirm that salvation is limited in extent to those whom God the Father has given to Christ? For example, refer to John 17:2 Gospel of John 17:1-2 - “These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son also may glorify Thee: As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given to Him.” Thus Christ Himself, in His full Divine authority as the only-begotten Son, declares and confirms that the practical extent of salvation by grace is limited to all those whom GOD the Father has given to the Son. It therefore follows that in respect of all who perish in their unbelief and sin, that it never was the will of God that any of those perished ones that they should be saved, for had it been so, the Father would have given those people to the Son. But He did not do so. Therefore they all inevitably perished. Although many people are of the mistaken opinion that “universal salvation” is God’s will, this idea is denied and refuted by Christ and His Apostles in the Scriptures. Tim Moran also wrote: “Scripture does say: 1 Timothy 2:3-6 – 3 ‘This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.’” My reply: Quite apart from the fact that you’ve obviously omitted to consider 1 Timothy 2:3-6 in its context * and * in the context of * All * the Scriptures, you seem to be assuming that the term “all men” must always only mean everyone of the entire human race ever to have existed from Creation till the end of time without any exception. Please confirm. If so, i.e. if you’re advocating the fanciful theories of “universal atonement” and “universal salvation,” you then have the problem of trying to explain why the LORD God is blatantly incompetent and manifestly incapable of accomplishing that which you assume He wants and-or desires to do; which, according to you, is to save everyone of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve to the end of the world without any exception. If, according to your universalistic spin on 1 Timothy 2:3-6, God wants to save every individual person of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve to the end of the world without any exception, how do you reconcile your theory of “universal salvation” with the fact that in the centuries from Creation till Christ’s incarnation in 6 BC, innumerable millions of people perished in unbelief and sin and were justly condemned to eternal punishment in Hell to bear the penalty of their sins. Surely a god that according to you, wants everyone without any exception to be saved, could have and should have saved those sinners now in Hell. But he-it did not do so. Why not? I await your explanation with much interest. Remainder of reply to follow. Regards, Michael |
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6 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197730 | ||
Greetings, Tim, (Continuation of reply – Part 2) Michael T. to Tim Moran: Again, if you consider Christ to have died on behalf of, atoned for the sins of, and bore the penalty of the sins of everyone of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve unto the end of the world without any exception whatsoever, have you realised that by doing so, you’re implying that God is an unjust despotic tyrant because you infer that God requires a double penalty in respect of condemned sinners; once by Christ on the cross, and again by those sinners who have been sent to Hell. By now it should be evident that there are major problems with the totally unBiblical concepts of “universal atonement” and “universal salvation.” But these problems don't exist when we consider each verse of Scripture in the context of all the Scriptures and also in the context of the chapter and book in which each verse is located. When you begin to apply this essential exegetical policy, as do all competent students of the Scriptures, you will also discover that terms such as “all men,” and ”all,” and ”world” are synonyms for particular classes and categories of people; i.e. these terms aren’t referring to the entire human race in all generations, as you’ve assumed. Tim Moran also wrote: “Scripture also says, Hebrews 2:9 – ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.’” My reply: Thanks for supplying us with this excellent example of the major errors in interpretation which invariably occur when individual verses of Scripture are wrenched out of their contexts and without any recognition or consideration for the contexts from which they have been hacked, or for the context of the Scriptures as a whole. The writer of the Letter to the Hebrews did not send his audience a single verse; no, he wrote an entire letter which in our Bibles, consists of 323 verses. For each individual verse of the Letter to the Hebrews to be properly and accurately considered and weighed, it must not be held in isolation but it must always be considered in the context of the entire Letter and also in its immediate context. Similarly, the Letter to the Hebrews must never be considered in isolation from the remainder of the Scriptures, but to be properly understood, it must always be considered as an integral part of the Canon of the Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures. If you had considered Hebrews 2:9 in its immediate context; you would have noticed from Hebrews 2:10 “many sons”; Hebrews 2:11-12 “brethren”; and Hebrews 2:13 “the children whom God has given to Me,” that the term “every man” refers exclusively to elect believers in Christ but not to “everyone of the entire human race in all generations from Creation until the end of the world without any exception whatsoever.” It’s evident that when the term “every man” occurs in the Scriptures it does not necessarily mean “everyone of 6he entire human race in all generations from Creation until the end of the world without any exception” and it is simplistic and altogether mistaken to blandly assume that it does. Colossians 1:28 and 1 Corinthians 12:7 are but two examples where the term “all men” has an obviously restrictive sense; i.e. believers. Remainder of reply to follow. Regards, Michael |
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7 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197731 | ||
Greetings, Tim, (Continuation of reply – Part 3) Tim Moran also wrote: “Romans 5:18 – ‘Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.’" My reply: This is yet another example where you have hacked an individual verse out of its context, totally ignored the remainder of Chapter Five of Romans and you have treated the remainder of the Letter to the Romans and the Scriptures as a whole as though it either doesn’t exist or is of no significance whatsoever. Ask yourself this: Does your isolationist treatment of the Scriptures display the reverence and respect due to the Scriptures? It obviously does not. When you examine the preceding verse of Romans 5:17 – which you omitted to recognise, you will see that the people in Romans 5:18b to whom the free gift actually comes upon are unto justification of life are identified in Romans 5:17 as those who "receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness," and who thus "reign in life.” Since Romans 5:1 tells us that justification is only through faith, and Romans 3:25-26 tell us that salvation is reserved for those who have saving Faith in Christ and for no others than these, it is therefore obvious that the term “all men” in Romans 5:18b refers to all those who have saving Faith in Christ and to no others than these, which is confirmed by John 3:16 which states that al who do not have saving Faith in Christ will perish. See also Gospel of John 3:36. Gospel of John 3:36 – “He who believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” Tim Moran also wrote: “Yet, there is not a single verse of Scripture which states that Christ did not die for all.” My reply: Then it’s evident that you need to study the Scriptures – all the Scriptures - much more thoroughly. Begin by considering Gospel of John 10:11 in the context of John chapter 10 - “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” Also reflect on Gospel of John 10:26 in the context of John chapter 10 – “But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” Tim Moran also wrote: Yet, inferences are made from Scripture to support that Christ did not die for all, inferences which are not justified by the texts. For instance, look at the verses used in your post to support the view that " it was always the will of GOD that they should be excluded from salvation." They simply do not say any such thing. Here are the complete texts of the verses: 1) Revelation 20:15 - "If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Nothing is said in this verse about God's eternal will for these individuals.” My reply: It’s obvious from Revelation 21:8 that the lake of fire which GOD has reserved for the type of people described in that verse is everlasting in duration, as evidenced by the term “second death.” Try to avoid jumping to off-the-cuff conclusions. Instead, spend much more time in carefully reflecting on each verse, and the context of each verse, and then consider each individual verse in the context of all the Scriptures. Then and only then, form your conclusion. Never impose your own personal opinions on the Scriptures but allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves by the Holy Spirit of God because this is how God has designed His Scriptures to operate. Tim Moran wrote: 2) Matthew 25:41 - "‘‘Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."" Again, no mention of God's eternal will for these individuals.” My reply: I'm surprised that you haven’t realised what is very obvious; i.e. that the phrase “Eternal Fire” clearly refers to an eternal and therefore everlasting punishment for all those rejected by the Son of Man i.e. Christ. Thus, God’s eternal will for all such people is blatantly obvious. Tim Moran: 3) Revelation 21:8 - "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Again, no mention of God's eternal will for these individuals.” My reply: The term ”second death” clearly emphasises the enduring nature of the punishment to which GOD condemns all who do not repent and believe on Christ and who perish in unbelief. Revelation 21:8 is also conclusive proof that the superstitious theories of “universal atonement” and “universal salvation” are denied by GOD in His Scriptures. Final comments to follow in Part 4 of 4/ Regards, Michael |
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8 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197732 | ||
Greetings, Timothy, Part 4 – Final: Tim Moran: "(b) all the remainder; i.e. all unbelievers, a.k.a. the Reprobate or non-elect, in respect of whom it was always the will of GOD that they should be excluded from salvation, and who all inevitably perish in their sin and unbelief [Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:41; Revelation 21:8]." My reply: If your theories were true; i.e. that “God wants to save everyone in the entire human race” and “Christ died for everyone in the entire man race” - then everyone of the entire human race would be saved without any exception. But it’s obvious from every-day common-sense observation, that this is certainly* not * the case - or are you classifying the current world combined population of 2,500 Billion Hindus and Buddhists and Islamics and Taoists and Confucianists as all born-anew disciples of Jesus Christ?? Please consider Christ’s statement in Gospel of John 6:44 – Gospel of John 6:44 - “NO ONE can come to Me UNLESS the Father Who has sent Me draws him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Since coming to Christ is essential for salvation, and since no one can come to Christ UNLESS they are drawn to Christ by GOD the Father, it is obvious that in respect of all who perish in their unbelief and sin, that it never was the will of GOD that any of those people should be saved, for had it been, GOD the Father would certainly have drawn them to Christ. Christ’s statement in Gospel of John 6:44 is therefore conclusive Divine proof that those whom God desires to save - as in 1 Timothy 2:4 and 1 Timothy 2:6 – are those whom GOD the Father has from before Creation chosen to save, as described by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 1:3-11 and elsewhere in the Scriptures. You also need to recognise that (a) salvation is only by saving Faith in Christ and (Romans 3:25-26; Galatians 3:14) and that (b) saving Faith is the gift of God (Romans 12:3; Acts 18:27; Titus 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1) Therefore it is very evident indeed that in respect of all who do not have saving Faith in Christ and who thus inevitably perish [see John 3:16], that it never was the will of GOD that any of those who perish should be saved, for had it been, GOD would assuredly have given them His gift of saving Faith. But He did not do so. Thus your universalistic ideas are proven to be contrary to and denied by the Scriptures. Regards, Michael T. |
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9 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197734 | ||
Hi, Thanks for your encouraging comments. Re the corruption of much of "christianity" by the heresy of Pelagianism, you may be interested in R.C. Sproul's essay: "The Pelagian Captivity of the Church," which is located at: " http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html " Cheers, Michael |
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10 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197819 | ||
Greetings Cheri, Michael T. said: "how do you reconcile your theory of “universal salvation” with the fact that in the centuries from Creation till Christ’s incarnation in 6 BC, innumerable millions of people perished in unbelief and sin and were justly condemned to eternal punishment in Hell to bear the penalty of their sins. Surely a god that according to you, wants everyone without any exception to be saved, could have and should have saved those sinners now in Hell. But he-it did not do so." Cheri replied: “I suggest you re-read the Hebrew Scriptures. You are highly mistaken!” My response: Please supply specific Scripture references which prove your opinion. Michael T. |
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11 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197822 | ||
Greetings John, You said: “Anyone that would refer to God as, he-it, is no Christian, has no relationship with God, and could not have even the slightest notion of what His word is talking about, that, sir, is blasphemy!” You’ve obviously missed the point which I made in my earlier message. I was replying to another person who erroneously assumes that God has promised to or is under obligation to save every individual person of the entire human race from Creation onwards without any exception. That theory is totally foreign to the Scriptures. The LORD God revealed in His Scriptures is the Saviour of al of His elect and predestinated people and of more than these. [Refer Ephesians 1:3-11; 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 8:28-30.] A “universal saviour god” does not exist. It is a gross distortion and that is why I referred to that false deity as an “it.” Regards, Michael T. |
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12 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197823 | ||
Greetings Tim! You said: “Thanks for the detailed response. I have church all day today, but I should be able to respond on Monday.” Enjoy your day. My reply was lengthy because your original message raised numerous important points which needed to be addressed. Regards, Michael |
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13 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197828 | ||
Greetings, You said: ”It's interesting that you are so quick to argue this topic. Are you trying to convince me? Or yourself??“ My reply: I'm not arguing. Instead, I'm pointing out the Biblical truths of this topic of Election and Pre-destination. Nor do I need convincing of the truths of the Scriptures because I'm totally assured of the truth and accuracy and reliability of all the Scriptures. You said: “How do you convince someone they are elected, "Oh hey by the way God chose you but maybe not your mother, maybe not your daughter,” My reply: But nowhere in the Scriptures are we ever commanded to “convince people that they are elected.” Instead, Christ’s requires His disciples to go into the entire world and proclaim the Gospel of Christ. Please note the difference. Furthermore, the Apostle Paul says in 2 Timothy that “the Lord knows them who are His.” Therefore the issue as to whether any particular person is among God’s elect people or not is a matter which the LORD God has reserved to Himself, and we should not intrude on His prerogative. You said: “But he is a loving God.” The LORD God is also Just and Righteous and Holy and cannot abide sin in any of its manifold varieties, and as sure and certain evidence of this fact, He has provided a place of eternal punishment which is described in Revelation 21:8 - Revelation 21:8 - “But the cowards, and unbelievers, and the immoral and sexually-perverted, and murderers, and whoremongers and fornicators, and those involved in witchcraft, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” If your belief that “he is a loving God” implies that God overlooks all sin without any exception and pardons everyone without any exception, then that “god” is not the righteous holy LORD God of the Scriptures but an idol to be rejected as a product of human imagination. Although GOD loves, the Scriptures teach that God’s love isn’t universal; instead, it is particular, focused, discriminatory and exclusive. For example: Psalm 5:5-6 - “The foolish shall not stand in Your sight: You hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.” and, Romans 9:13 - “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Salvation by grace has never been universal in extent. God has never been under any obligation to save anyone. The fact that He has chosen to save many but not all of the human race is evidence of His mercy and grace, but nevertheless innumerable people perish in their sins, and are justly condemned in accordance with God’s standards of righteousness and holiness. Michael T. |
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14 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197872 | ||
Hi, John, You said: “Sorry; :-( ... I missed that connection, ... my apologies sir.” No problem. I'm glad to know that you now know what I was driving at. On reflection, I should have expressed myself more clearly. You also said: “And I agree! There is no such thing as universal salvation. And I'm pretty sure Brother Tim would agree too . . . “ I hope so. However, universalist-oriented misconstructions will often occur whenever Scripture verses containing, for example, the terms “all,” “all men,” “world” and “the whole world” etc. are taken in isolation without any consideration of the local contexts thereof, nor any consideration for the context of the entire Scriptures. Conversely, when exegesis of the Scriptures is consistently undertaken on a responsible contextual basis as described above, the theories of “universal redemption,” “universal atonement,” “universal salvation” etc. are always all exposed as fallacious and thus heretical. Regards, Michael |
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15 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197962 | ||
Greetings Cheri, You said: “I did - the entire Hebrew Scriptures! From word one to the last word - it is a promise to "whoever will." My reply: In respect of the “whosoever will,” not all CAN come. Those who do come only do so because they have been impelled to come by the power of God’s irresistible grace. Have you ever considered the implications of Christ’s statement in Gospel of John 6:44, in which Christ [Who is GOD] declares: “NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS the Father Who has sent me draws him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Where then is human “free-will”? It is impotent, corrupt, and useless. All that human “free-will” does is to drive people to Hell. Furthermore, only GOD’s will is truly free. So the “whosoever wills” are none other than those whom GOD the Father draws by His irresistible sovereign grace to Christ. People are incapable of themselves of coming to Christ though many, in defiance or ignorance of the truths of the Scriptures, mistakenly assume that they can. You said: “God has prepared a feast but He won't force anyone to partake.” You’re mistaken. Since, as Christ and also His Apostles teach in the Scriptures, no one can of themselves come to Christ and be saved, those whom God has chosen to be saved are first, against their carnal rebellious wills, born anew by the Spirit of GOD [John 3:1-8] and then irresistibly drawn [dragged] to Christ by the power of God’s grace. If salvation depended upon the will of Man, no one would ever be saved; all without any exception would go to Hell where they all rightly belong because of their sins and transgressions. Thank GOD that He can and does overcome the will of human creatures to achieve His purposes! You said: “God has prepared a feast but He won't force anyone to partake.” This feast has been prepared for those whom GOD has chosen to partake of it. A guest does not choose; instead He is chosen to attend. Those who choose themselves are “gate-crashers” and are therefore unwelcome and unwanted. The Scriptures teach that salvation always depends on GOD’s Choice [i.e. Election and Predestination]; never on Man’s choice. You said: “All those before Yeshua were saved by their trust in the Promise to come, all those during and afterward are saved by their trust in the Promise fulfilled.” My reply: These are the elect and pre-destinated people of God whom from before Creation He chose to be brought to salvation by grace. But the non-elect; i.e. the Reprobate, are all excluded from before Creation. You said: “And if one had to be alive during Yeshua's lifetime (or afterward) to receive salvation by grace through faith, then please explain why not one apostle or disciple is named in Hebrews chapter 11 that describes the kind of trust it takes to please Abba.” The letter to the Hebrews, as its title implies, was written to Jewish people who were ostensibly believers in Christ but who were having difficulties in their transition to the faith of Christ. In Chapter 11 of the Letter to the Hebrews, the writer is reminding his audience of the great examples of saving Faith by the people of the past and in Hebrews 12, he challenges his audience to persevere by following those examples set out in Chapter 11. All of those referred to in Hebrews Chapter 11 who lived by Faith were – and are – GOD’s elect and predestinated people who lived prior to Christ’s Incarnation but were – and are – saved in prospect of the grace of Christ’s atoning work on the Golgotha cross which He wrought on behalf of all of GOD’s elect and pre-destinated people. Regards, Michael |
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16 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197972 | ||
Greetings, You said: “The Lord knows who are His because He is all-knowing; not selective.” My reply: You’re mistaken. One doesn’t have to read far in the Bible to discover that GOD is discriminatory and selective. And since He created the universe, He is perfectly entitled to act as He alone decides without any reference to His creatures. Obviously, the LORD God always acts righteously, but because He is the sovereign Owner and Ruler over all things, He decides and acts as He alone decides. Our part is to unconditionally submit ourselves to GOD’s royal will. Read Deuteronomy chapter 7 and Ephesians 1:3-11 to see examples of GOD’s sovereign and discriminatory choices. You said: “Yes, I realize unbelievers and such will be punished; Why? Because they chose to not believe and God knew they would not believe.” My reply: The Bible teaches that no one can come to Christ or have saving Faith in Christ or savingly repent of their sins unless GOD first grants them His grace to do so. Refer to Acts 13:48; Acts 18:27; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 15:5. Take particular note of Christ’s statements in Gospel of John 6:44 and 6:65 in which He declares “NO ONE can come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me draw Him, and I will raise Him up at the last day.” Thus Christ declares that salvation is entirely by GOD’s sovereign grace. Human “free-will” has nothing to do with it. Salvation is by GOD’s grace throughout. As the prophet Jonah declared [Jonah 2:9] “Salvation is of the LORD!” You said: “I realize God is Just and Righteous, also merciful and full of Grace. How does the bible teach that God's Love is not universal or that it is exclusive? John 3:16 says clearly that God so loved the world, is that exclusive? My reply: Yes. Many people refer to John 3:16 who seem to have never realised what that verse actually says. John 3:16 in effect divides the entire human race into two groups: (a) those who believe on the Only-begotten Son; i.e. Christ, and who are thus granted eternal life; i.e. salvation, and (b) all the remainder who perish in their unbelief and sin. Since each individual verse of Scripture is not in isolation but is part of the particular book of the canon of Scripture in which it occurs, and is therefore also is an integral part of the entire Scriptures, we must therefore also consider John 3:16 in the context of the Gospel of John and then in the context of the entire Scriptures. When we do so, we discover the great truths of Election and Pre-destination unto salvation [Ephesians 1:3-11; 2 Timothy 1:9; John 10:26; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Romans 8:28-30, etc., which state that GOD has from before Creation determined the practical extent to which salvation will apply, and that in every aspect and phase of salvation by grace, it is GOD [not Man] “Who works all things according to the counsel of His own will” [Ephesians 1:11b]. You said: “I am not saying that everyone will go to heaven regardless, what I am saying is that He has stretched out His Love and Mercy to any that will receive it. “ My reply: You’re mistaken. Christ Himself says in Gospel of John 6:37 that all who the Father gives to Christ WILL come; i.e. (a) GOD’s grace in salvation is irresistible, and (b) the operative choice of who comes to Christ is not of Man but of GOD. (c) So-called human “free-will” is not in view because (d) salvation is always only by GOD’s sovereign grace. Thus, GOD’s reserves His love and mercy in salvation to all whom He has chosen; i.e. elected and predestinated to be saved in Christ, and to no more than these. Christ is t5he Saviour of GOD’s elect people and of no others. To be continued in Part 2 … |
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17 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197973 | ||
Part 2: You said: “1 Timothy 2:3-6; This is good and pleases God our Saviour who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men- the testimony given in proper time. :now how do you explain that God's grace is limited when it says Christ gave himself as a ransom for all men?” My reply: Many people hack verses or parts of verses out of the Scriptures and fling words such as “all” and “al men” and “world” about like confetti or like straws in the wind, but these same people who butcher the Scriptures always deliberately ignore the contexts from which those snippets have been hacked. They also avoid considering those fragments in the context of All the Scriptures. The result is always blatant misrepresentation of the Scriptures, and a * misrepresentation * is another word for a lie. You seem to be assuming that Christ died to save “every individual person of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve until the end of the world without any exception whatsoever” but this is contradicted by the Scriptures, which teach [Romans 12:3, Acts 13:48, Acts 18:27; Hebrews 12:2; Galatians 5:22 etc.] that saving Faith is itself the gift of GOD, and without Faith it is impossible to please GOD [Hebrews 11:6]. Therefore it’s obvious that it is not the will of GOD that everyone of the entire human race should be saved, because GOD has deliberately withheld His gift of saving Faith from many people who therefore perish. Since the Scriptures teach that salvation is always by Grace apart from works, it is obvious that it is not the will of GOD that everyone of the entire human race should be saved, because the fact that that many perish in sin and unbelief – which fact is confirmed by Gospel of John 3:16b – is cogent proof that GOD has deliberately withheld His saving grace from all such people or otherwise they would not have perished in their sins. You said: “Or How can you say God's love isn't universal when He wants all to come to a knowledge of the truth? My reply: Gospel of John 6:39-45 states that the “all” whom GOD wants to come to a knowledge of the truth are none other than those which GOD the Father gives to Christ – as in John 6:44 and John 6:39. Why would GOD want the knowledge of the truth to be obtained by those people whom even before Creation He deliberately excluded from the number of His elect people? No reason at all. Why would GOD want the knowledge of the truth to be obtained by those people whom He has deliberately excluded from having their names written in His Book of Life [refer to Revelation 20:15 immediately below.]? No reason at all. Revelation 20:15 - “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:15 is but one of numerous Scripture verses which prove that the ideas of “universal atonement” and “universal salvation” are falsehoods and heresies. To be concluded in Part 3 … |
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18 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197974 | ||
Greetings again, Part 3 – Conclusion: You said: “Or when it says GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD??” My reply: It helps discussion if you always supply the Scripture references of each of the particular Scripture passages to which you refer. In this instance, I assume that you’re alluding to Gospel of John 3:16. The Bible isn’t a collection of individual verses flung together. Instead, the Bible is one entire inter-connected work of Divine revelation, consistent throughout, and designed by GOD its Author to be its own interpreter, by the Spirit of GOD. Therefore the proper meaning of any particular verse of Scripture can only be determined by always carefully considering each verse in its local context and also always in the context of ALL the Scriptures. There are *no short cuts* in this process of responsible and accurate exegesis. We need to have a working-knowledge of ALL the Scriptures if our conclusions are to be properly informed and consistent with the Scriptures. To err is to misrepresent the Scriptures, which is to misrepresent the Author of His Scriptures, Who is the LORD God. The local context of John 3:16 is John 3:1-36. In John 3:1-13, Christ is in dialog with Nicodemus, a religious leader from among the Jewish people. In John 3:14-15, Christ declares that salvation is conditioned on obedient saving Faith [believing] on the Son; i.e. Christ, and in John 3:16, it is confirmed that salvation is not restricted to believers from among the Jews but also to believers from among the Gentiles; i.e. the “world.” [refer also to John 4:22:24]. It is obvious that the term “world” in John 3:16 cannot mean ““every individual person of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve until the end of the world without exception” because, as John 3:16 emphasises, salvation is always conditioned on saving Faith in Christ the only-begotten Son. And Gospel of John 3:36 declares that the righteous wrath of GOD continues upon all who do not believe [i.e. do not have saving Faith] in the only-begotten Son. Since we know from Romans 12:3, Acts 13:48, Acts 18:27; Hebrews 12:2; Galatians 5:22 etc, that saving Faith is itself the gift of GOD, and since without Faith it is impossible to please GOD [Hebrews 11:6], it is therefore blatantly obvious that in respect of all those who perish in their sin and unbelief [John 3:16b], that it never was the will of GOD that any of those perished ones should be saved. Thus it is evident from the Scriptures that the love of GOD which is spoken of in Gospel of John 3:16 is His love for all of His elect and pre-destinated people from among both the Jewish people and from among the Gentiles, but no more than these. It is obvious that GOD does not extend His love to those whom He willed from before Creation to withhold salvation. To assert otherwise, as many people rashly and ignorantly do, is foolish and also absurd because it implies that GOD is double-minded and self-contradictory, which is blasphemous. To sum up, the Scriptures deny and refute the heresies of “universal salvation,” “universal redemption,” “universal atonement,” and “universal propitiation.” You said: “I also wanted to apologize for my attitude in the last note that I wrote, this is a very emotional topic for me knowing that God's love and mercy is for any who will accept it,“ My reply: It’s not a matter of “accepting” but of having true saving Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ never asks people to “accept” Him; instead, as in Gospel of Mark 1:15: REPENT and BELIECE the Gospel!” Stick to what the Scriptures say. You said: “It bothers me that other people choose to believe that they are chosen and some have no hope b/c God just decides they will be punished no matter the heart.” My reply: Nowhere do the Scriptures require people to believe that “they are chosen.” Instead, saving Faith is to be in Christ. Confine yourself to all of GOD’s Scriptures. Let then be your lamp and your light [Psalm 119:105], in dependence upon GOD to enlighten you by His Holy Spirit. Regards, Michael T. |
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19 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 198153 | ||
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20 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 198154 | ||
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