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Results from: Notes Author: Inquisitor Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224565 | ||
But it's still quite a quandry to me. These people, at least most of the ones I've seen here on the Forum ask sincere questions based on scripture and most of the time, all they get in response is name-calling. Is there any justification for this kind of behavior? |
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2 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224568 | ||
The easiest response would be to look up the number of posts on this Forum referencing the name of derision "Campbellites." I looked up this controversy as it refers to Alexander Campbell who was a famous (apparently well earned) debater during the Restoration Period of Christianity. I understand his debates to this date are considered classics in the logical use of God's Word, reminding one of Paul's Letter to the Romans. Of course Campbell was not inspired but it is great that we have such a rich history of Godly men in the recent past. Hope this helps and God's blessings in your studies, Inquisitor. |
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3 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224577 | ||
BradK, I'm acknowledging that you, Beja and Searcher have all made good points about the weaknesses of mankind over the centuries. When I looked up Campbellite in Wikapedia, it mentioned that this custom was started much in the same way the folks who followed Martin Luther's teachings were called Lutherans. They didn't like it and Mr. Luther certainly didn't like it. He fought hard to stop it. What he wanted was and is what all God's people want. We all want the church on a universal, world-wide scale is to go back to the Bible for simple guidance, nothing more and nothing less. That's what I want and what I earnestly seek after. In a more calm mood now, I can only conclude maybe it would be better to refer to people who follow Mr. Campbell as believers in Campbellism like Calvinism, etc. As mentioned Christian groups all think they're following God's Word and interpreting God's Word to the very best they possibly can. And in spite of this and the Lord's prayer for unity and like mindedness, we still disagree on so many, many differences, thus the different names and denominations. It is truly sad to me as a humble child of God that we can't agree on these Bible basic truths but that's been the plight of mankind since the beginning. We can only try to adhere to Jesus' adminotions and resolve to minimize our spirits in this regard and instead put our focus on the Lord like Peter did on the water. I certainly didn't want to raise a big fuss on this topic. I was just hoping to raise our standards of behavior and thinking to those of our Lord's. I sincerely thank you for your responses. It's been enlightening. God's blessings on you all and the whole Forum, Inquisitor |
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4 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224580 | ||
Beja, My only response would be from God's Word: Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. From this passage, we learn about a group of people who apparently were in violation to God's Will and His Word. I don't know the details but it's sufficient the name was most certainly not complimentary. Rev 2:19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Another report of christians following another person in conflict with God's Word. Nuff said. 1 Cor 1:11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. This passage indicates Paul's own regret in baptizing. What a shameful condition to take place in the Lord's church. 1 Tim 1:18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. Well I think I could come up with other examples, including those from the OT but I think you get my point. When one gives his life and everything he hopes be to the Lord, sacrificing his all, it's a natural thing for such a child of God to be a little sensitive to this thing as name-calling. Sure we are to take such ridicule and abuse from the world but when a christian comes to this Forum dedicated to Bible study by christians and for christians to use to build up the Lord's church, we naturally think we won't be stuck with labels other than simply christians. I think the scriptures above and all the other examples from the Bible clearly support this position but that of course is just my opinion. What do you think? Still wishing God's richest blessings on you, Inquisitor |
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5 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224585 | ||
Beja, I too believe in being a philosopher and discuss Bible all day long. But I'm thinking the scriptures (and History) I provided proves that people don't like labels when we're encouraged by God to wear His name and show His Word through our lives. I noticed your post didn't really address any of the scriptures as referenced in my post. How can one argue against them? Jesus says we're either for Him or against Him... Luke 11:23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Yes, as I mentioned above I too am a philosopher but I'm thinking we should only pilosophize (sp?) on those items as optional in the Bible. There are a few things in the NT (much fewer than in the OT) that should not be up for debate. As I understand these verses, our Lord doesn't like to see name-calling used in any regard, especially when we re-read the 1 Corinthian letter. We should not place an undue amount of value on any one person's opinion (including mine BTW) but instead Christ is to get ALL the preeminence. Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. I can imagine since you've argued so passionately for your position that you're not going to change your way of thinking, at least not easily. I'm just hoping to give you some "food for thought," hopefully from the Lord. God bless you, Inquisitor |
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6 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224588 | ||
Quoted from Beja: So let me offer this. I agree that we should not say mean things to each other, and I agree that we should exclusively follow the teachings of scripture and not those of any man who is teaching something contrary. I think I can live with that. Thanks for your patience. And as always, God's blessings on you, Inquisitor |
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7 | Harsh Treatment? | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224592 | ||
Doc, I can only agree with your statement with another quote from God's Word. 1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with Godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. Hopefully, you did see my most recent post to Beja but in case you missed it... I'm completely ready to close this thread. God's blessings to you, Inquisitor |
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8 | Text Clarification | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224754 | ||
I think Azure is right on target here. This concept is very much alien to the teaching of the Bible. I don't think there's any scripture to even suggest such a thing. Your friend should be challenged to furnish the verse to which he/she is referring. Thanks be to God you're there to defend His Word, 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; God bless you in your studies, Inquisitor |
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9 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224794 | ||
Thanks, Beja. Appreciate the quick response. Looking forward to an objective source from the internet or a commentary. As you mentioned, Doc will most likely have some information for us. God bless you both, Inquisitor |
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10 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224795 | ||
Just giving your verses from 2 Peter a quick scan, it seems we can sum up the overall thought from Peter that he like Paul were VERY much concerned about the church and her direction in the future. They were very much concerned about the coming apostacy or departure from the Truth as revealed by Jesus and His official representatives, the Apostles. In addition to Peter's words, we have Paul's warning to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. I believe this whole departure from the "straight and narrow" as Jesus would call it is referred to by historians as the apostacy. A brief intro from the Wikapedia, Apostasy (pronounced /[Greek word]) is the formal religious disaffiliation, abandonment, or renunciation by a person of a religion. One who commits apostasy apostatizes and is an apostate. These terms have a pejorative implication in everyday use. The term is used by sociologists to mean renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, a person's former religion, in a technical sense and without pejorative connotation. The word derives from a Greek word, (apostasia), meaning a defection or revolt, from [Greek word], apo, "away, apart", [Greek word] stasis, "stand", "standing". The term is sometimes also used to refer to renunciation of a belief or cause by extension of the religious connotation, such as in reference to a political party or (generally facetiously) a sports team. End of Quote... So God installed through the HS the perfect church as described throughout the NT BUT, just as noted by Paul's and Peter's prediction, perfection doesn't last long. It doesn't last long because man is simply NOT inclined to keep God's Law in any dispensation. Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. I don't know about all the sub-groups (Antinomianism and all the others) but suffice it to say that whenever man departs from God's Sacred Truth, it is simply known as error. Joshua referred to this tendancy with Josh 1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest. 8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. So mankind in general, but most especialy God's people have shown themselves to be totally unable to abide by His Laws. So we have to rely on His Grace and Mercy if we're covered by the Blood of Jesus and pray every night for forgiveness. In this dispensation we are to adopt the "mind of Christ" 1 Cor 2:16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, And how do we do this adopting of the mind of Christ? Rom 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. And of course, we must see ourselves as keeping each other sharp with God's Word, learning to weld it as the Sword of God. I hope this helps and I apologize for the size. God bless, Inquisitor |
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11 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224796 | ||
Another set of scriptures in support: 2 Thes 2: 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Once again Paul is clearly predicting the coming Apostasy and the cure is once again cited below 2 Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Thus God's Word must become our dearest possession, deep in our soul and guide our conscience. God's Blessings on you all, Inquisitor |
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12 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224805 | ||
Beja, I never did see any source of this business about Nomianism or Antinomianism. Would you mind sharing your source of these concepts? Do you know who originated their "movement"? Thanks for your patience and God bless, Inquisitor |
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13 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224808 | ||
Thanks for a great thread of discussion, most interesting. God bless, Inquisitor |
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14 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224817 | ||
Doc, I appreciate your contribution to this discussion; it's most enlightening. But in my simple way of looking at the various subjects of the Bible, I always first and prefer to use the Bible as its own best Commentary. So it seems to me this antinomian group as referred to by Peter is just another group of people who are in error compared to God's Word. Similarly, Paul refers to Alexander the coppersmith in 2 Tim 4, Phygellus and Hermogenes in 2 Tim 1. Paul deals rather harshly (and justly) with Hymenaeus and Alexander in 1 Tim 1. God addresses a great many with all manner of sins in the first chapter of Romans with Paul summmarizing their fate in Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; The Bible is quite literally filled with those who deviate from God's Word, occasionally through no fault of their own and are easily corrected. Such was the case of Apollos corrected by Aquila and Priscilla in Acts 18. Those that are NOT inclined to following His Word ultimately receive their just reward, i.e. Achan in Josh 7. To me personally, it's easier to study God's Word with the resolve to follow Joshua's advice, "deter neither to the left nor to the right." But I do appreciate the efforts of scholars like yourself, Beja and all the rest. I do think God endorses the "whole team" effect in 1 Cor 12. Me? I'm just a simple student of His Word. In appreciation and God bless, Inquisitor |
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15 | The error addressed in 2 Peter | Bible general Archive 4 | Inquisitor | 224835 | ||
Doc, What can I say but that I'm in full agreement. Thanks again and God bless ALL those who study God's Word with the resolution of obeying Him. It's a pleasure exchanging God's Truths with you. God bless you throughout your life, Inquisitor |
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16 | What is "entering into God's rest?" | NT general | Inquisitor | 224962 | ||
I can only respond with God's Word... Heb 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. God bless, Inquisitor |
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17 | What is "entering into God's rest?" | NT general | Inquisitor | 224965 | ||
I can only respond with common sense. We're told one thing by Paul in a straight forward letter dealing with problems in his world, his timeframe. But as you say, we're told something quite different by John in a futuristic Book with many figures and many mysterious symbols very difficult to interpret. The main message of Revelation was one of comfort to christians who knew their Old Testament very well and most of those symbols seem to mean something very significant to them. Also notice this mysterious way writing of an Inspired Book this late in that century was addressed to christians who were undergoing tremendous (unimaginable to us today) persecution from the Roman Government and Roman citizens. IF this Book were ever seized by those Romans and correctly interpreted, it would have meant even more severe and unrelenting persecution. Thus the need for this "disgused" form of issuing a message to this poor, practically defenseless christians. The most excellent example of this kind of coded message IMO is from Rev 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. 23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” Now to us as modern Bible students, we can see that God was clearly referring to the Roman Empire when He used this code word, Babylon. But to the Romans, they would be confused because of the use of past tense in this passage; they would think it meant some other city or empire. Clever, huh? Rev 15:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs. In this earlier passage, we can see the Lord is going to take His time in "crushing" and destroying the Roman Empire, like as He's pressing it for their blood instead of grape juice in a winepress. Remember Rome didn't actually fall until 476 AD. So the bottom line in my conclusion is to NOT put so much stock for us as modern christians in the Book of Revelation and instead go with the straight forward language of the other NT writers. Please don't misunderstand my meaning. The most important message we as modern christians can glean from Revelation is that God has already won the war. We just need to choose whose side we want to be on, the winning side with God or the losing side with Satan. I could provide some commentaries from Bible scholars that support this position if you'd be interested. God bless, Inquisitor |
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18 | Why the children? | Num 33:55 | Inquisitor | 224837 | ||
You're referring to a very old and continuing controversy, "the inheritance of original sin," in which I don't believe. I've been taught that these passages are referring to the fact that we're all human and will eventually need the saving Grace from our Lord upon obeying his Commands for Salvation. How do you rationalize and make these verse harmonize with each other (Matt 19:14) and God's Word? Tough controversy but I'm certain God's Word will prevail. God bless, Inquisitor |
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19 | Why the children? | Num 33:55 | Inquisitor | 224839 | ||
Dear and precious Azure, I can only respond with what I see in my Bible, NKJV, my preference: Jesus Blesses Little Children (This heading copied from the NKJV) Matt 19:13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” 15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there. As you say, looking at the context as in reading a newspaper, we see the first word "Then" in verse 13 which seems to endorse the heading and the separation of this story from the previous "paragraph. (Yes I know, the original Greek didn't have paragraphs or chapters or verses. That's a modern innovation.) But I think my point is made. For assistance, I can only call on Matthew Henry's Commentary as follows Commentary on Matthew 19:13-15 It is well when we come to Christ ourselves, and bring our children. Little children may be brought to Christ as needing, and being capable of receiving blessings from him, and having an interest in his intercession. We can but beg a blessing for them: Christ only can command the blessing. It is well for us, that Christ has more love and tenderness in him than the best of his disciples have. And let us learn of him not to discountenance any willing, well-meaning souls, in their seeking after Christ, though they are but weak. Those who are given to Christ, as part of his purchase, he will in no wise cast out. Therefore he takes it ill of all who forbid, and try to shut out those whom he has received. And all Christians should bring their children to the Saviour that he may bless them with spiritual blessings. End of Quote In conclusion, it only makes sense for us as parents to look at our small children (as in my grandchildren) and readily admit that it is non-sensical to think that a small baby is born with this inherited sin and is therefore a candidate for Hell. This would be true since they're not able to obey God's Commands for Salvation. No, I'm sorry, I just cannot believe in this interpretation about Inherited Sin. But I'm still praying for God's blessings on you and your studies, Inquisitor |
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20 | Why the children? | Num 33:55 | Inquisitor | 224842 | ||
Dear Beja, Response to Psalms: In God's Eyes, all of mankind are like "children of wrath" in that our basic nature is to rebel. Look at the history of the whole world. War is the most recurring theme throughout our history. Reponse to Romans: As described by Paul, all mankind has indeed inherited the consequences of the fall of man and woman in the Garden of Eden. But that "fall" for each and every single one of us is re-confirmed when we reach the age of accountability (varies from person to person) and first decide to do or say or NOT do or say against what our awakening conscience tells us. This is just another example of one of God's basic laws of "reaping what we sow." It is inherent in man- and woman-kind for we can't possibly get away from our weak and sinful nature. That was proven by Adam and Eve; they had the very presence of God Himself and could come face to Face with Him, only because at that time they had no sin. (Notice this is one more proof that it is possible for a human being to be completely innocent and free of sin, absolutelly proven in the Face of God Himself.) But once they sinned, they could not face God and none of us have been able to do so since that day. Scriptures in support... Deut 24:16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin. 2 Ki 14:5 Now it happened, as soon as the kingdom was established in his hand, that he executed his servants who had murdered his father the king. 6 But the children of the murderers he did not execute, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, in which the LORD commanded, saying, “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; but a person shall be put to death for his own sin.” 2 Chron 25:4 4 However he did not execute their children, but did as it is written in the Law in the Book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; but a person shall die for his own sin.” And Repeated in 2 Kings 14:5...Repeated by God for emphasis? Who knows but God Himself. Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. Eze 18:19-20 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. As I mentioned to Azure, this is indeed a very, VERY controversial subject which has been going on for a thousand years or more. How can either one of us, you or me reconcile these verses. How about if you take a shot and explain the reconcilation to me? Please I would beg of you. Please be sure to explain the ideas/thoughts behind your words as quoted below: We must be very careful with this doctrine, because at the heart of Christianity lies this presupposition: A man can be judged by the merits or failures of another. If we take away that concept we have taken away the very gospel we preach. How and why would our God judge one person by the merits or failures of another? Please explain as thoroughly as you can why this concept is so important to the "very gospel we preach." Looking forward to your response and God bless, Inquisitor PS: I'm praying for you and Azure in this discussion. |
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