Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Notes Author: EveryHome Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Pre Wrath Rapture? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1290 | ||
I am finding the whole "Left Behind" series interesting but far from convincing. After spending umpteen years as a "pretrib" (without really knowing why) I am discovering the Pre Wrath position is really challening me. I am not sure I can work my way through it without another person who is interested and open. I don't want a strong "pretriber" trying to talk me out of it. I want to look at it carefully. Actually, I have read Rosenthal's book twice and find most of what he says easy to agree with. Van Kampen (who has gone to be with the Lord) is a much stronger advocate when you read his books. How would you "get to the bottom" of this issue? | ||||||
2 | Pre Wrath Rapture? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1292 | ||
For starters... do you agree with this "definition" of Pre Wrath Rapture? I mean do you believe it is correct? The position that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath,(Matt. 24:22) which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. (cf. Rev. 7:9-17) The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God. |
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3 | What is the point? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1333 | ||
Dear charis... you must live in a world that I do not live in. Christians, in my observation, fall victim to Satan even without the presence of the persecution and tribulation predicted by the Pre Wrath view. I would be interested in what you mean by "A good end-time teaching"... since that is what I am searching for and thinking that the Pre Wrath Rapture position may be just exactly that. Why do you so frequently refer to yourself as not being "capital" this or that. I appreciate your right to hold centralist views but I don't read the Bible that way. I certainly don't read Jesus that way. Issues of interpretation often focus on Scripture portions that have little or nothing to do with getting people exposed to the Word of God so they may be saved. Pet issues and arguments are a waste of time and bandwidth but I have a strong feeling that Pre Wrath is going to be incorrectly viewed in that category as your statement "submitting to sensationalism" might indicate. I am sorry you dropped the first part of your Scripture reference... I think the New Living Translation translates it well..."And that is why I am suffering here in prison. But I am not ashamed of it, for I know the one in whom I trust, and I am sure that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until the day of his return.2 Tim 1:12 NLT. I think this verse really points out the frequently illustrated persecution associated with true Christianity and the need to have the Lord see us through more of that to come. Although I am still pondering and praying... thinking through what you have said and the way you have said it makes me more interested in determining the validity or lack thereof.. of the Pre Wrath system of end-time thinking.You must sleep funny hours if you were going to bed when you read my last posting as it was early in the morning. Have a great day... awake or asleep!I appreciate your open heart charis. I think I do. |
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4 | Pre Wrath Rapture? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1337 | ||
Please do send me the references. Have you read the book Pre Wrath Rapture of the Chruch by Marvin Rosenthal? I think it would challenge many of your current views of Scripture. | ||||||
5 | Pre Wrath Rapture? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1380 | ||
Yes but the best price I have found is at http://www.signministries.org/ Please let me know what you think after reading the book. Blessings to you! |
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6 | What is the point? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1381 | ||
Dear JVH0212...In the KJV Matthew 24:24 the words "if it" are italicized. I think a clearer translation of the verse is..."For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. Matt 24:24 (NLT)... John 6:37 says Jesus will never reject us... not that apostasy is not possible. Likwise, Romans 8:28 is speaking... "of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)... not to those who are about to become apostate. Please understand that I am speaking from an Arminian perspective, which in addition to personally believing is correct, I think it is best supported by Scripture. Therefore... would you be so kind as to comment on the following Scriptures from your perspective: "Anyone who parts from me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned." John 15:6 (NLT) "Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe to those who disobeyed, but kind to you as you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off." Romans 11:22 (NLT) "For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come-- and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.Heb 6:4-6 (NLT) Thanks for your response. Let's talk more. Blessings to you! |
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7 | What is the point? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1382 | ||
Greetings charis. I have made many visits to Japan although not in recent years. As an Arminian believer... I too believe the concept of being "snatched away from God" is not taught in the Scripture. Yes I do know Arminian thinkers who would say differently but then that has never been an issue for our discussions. I am simply trying to work through a very well presented system of thinking in the Pre Wrath position. I really do disagree that a good Christian has nothing to worry about if that position is true since the challenges at that time will be far greater than most modern day believers are being taught and expecting. True... I meant "centralist" as a compliment when applied to modern thinking but being a centralist with Jesus is a bit of a stretch for me. I think He is looking for some very serious people to complete the task he left for us (and I sincerely assume you are one of those people). That is why I remarked that most of what I read on internet groups has to do with verses and/or concepts that really don't impact the lives of those that are perishing. I am really concerned about that with all there is to be done in world evangelism. I appreciate your comments about persecution and the positive impact that has on the church. You are correct. I believe that can even be enhanced however if we are expecting it and possibly even developing a strategy to take advantage of it with our current theology. Blessings to you charis... it is my turn to go to church. Good morning and good night. | ||||||
8 | What is the point? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1384 | ||
Dear charis.... it's me again. I am really interested in what you meant in a previous response when you suggested I find "A good end-time teaching". I asked you then but I think you forgot to explain or give me suggestions for the source of such teaching (synthesized from Scripture I presume) and I would really like to know what it is that would impress you as "good end-time teaching". You have depth. I like depth unless it becomes "analysis paralysis"... which I certainly do not sense in your case. He loves you charis! | ||||||
9 | What is the point? | 1 Thessalonians | EveryHome | 1413 | ||
Dear JVH0212... if you travel the world and meet Christians in various circumstances of life you soon learn that many things an American Christian takes for granted from the Scriptures are held in a very different view. Many I have met over the years trust God like we trust doctors (not that you and others don't trust Him also) but they rely on God for things we can provide for ourselves. Sometimes even the most simple provisions for life. Also, the Holy Spirit is more vital in many Christian lives than others. But most of all I was remarking that much of what people want to talk about (meaning their personal interpretation and pet views) has little to do with really important issues that might impact our ability to get more people exposed to the Gospel. Thanks for the comments. Keep talking. | ||||||
10 | But can WE know this? | Hebrews | EveryHome | 1233 | ||
Arminianism vs. Calvinism has been around for a long time. We are still facing the same issues just using different "possibilities" and study Bible references. "Falling from grace and losing your salvation" are really not part of the Arminian position. Ours is a belief that apostasy is possible. It is not as easy to become apostate as many "fall from grace" thinkers say it is. Meaning... you don't just wake up one morning having lost your salvation. Apostasy is a process and the person who is on that path will know it. Apostasy is the abandonment or renunciation of Christianity and it is not by accident nor is it "losing" (as in unintentional)or "falling" as in whoops! It is the culmination of the refusal to repent for things which are obvious to the person approaching a final act of disobedience. | ||||||