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Results from: Answers On or After: Thu 12/31/70 Author: Tomret Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 70A.D. or not? | Matt 16:28 | Tomret | 183966 | ||
Hi Brian, Whew that's a lot! I attempted a similar request from jonp on Luke 21 today and it took hours. So I ask first that you take a look at that ( ID# 183945 on 2-17 ). You might also want to check out "A Study of Matthew 24" at http://ecclesia.org/truth/preterism.html This the first preterist site I went to and there's a lot of good info there, but there's a lot of the webmaster's view I do not accept, so be a Berean. Tom |
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2 | 70A.D. or not? | Matt 16:28 | Tomret | 183896 | ||
Hi Brian, good to hear from you again. If Jesus came in final judgement in 70AD - and yes, I beleive He did - It confirms His prophesies of that event throughout the Gospels, and it removes the argument of atheists, Jews, Muslims, and others that He was NOT the Messiah because the things He predicted didn't come to pass in the time frame indicated. You ask why are they teaching it? By "they" I assume you mean Preterists. Why does any denomination, creed, or faith teach their interpretation over another? Because they beleive it to be the Truth. I beleive Matt. 24:34 was a prophesy to the disciples that the generation living at the time He spoke would not pass until the things He had just described came to pass. And I beleive these things did come to pass culminating in His judgement in 70AD, confirming His prophesy. Let me ask you to mentally travel back in time and be one of those disciples. Leave your beleifs here because they didn't yet have a beleif system, they were learning one. Jesus had been describing the signs that would precede His coming and the end of the age. Then He said, "Verily (Listen up! What I'm about to say is important!) I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Would you have honestly thought He was talking about a people living thousands of years later? OK, I know you would like to stay there, but come on back to the present. If one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day, then two of His days could be two thousand of our years, right? Amazing how the math works out. Now, allow me to digress a bit to give you some idea where I'm coming from. Although I became a Christian in my younger days I never became a serious student of the Bible. I read it from time to time but didn't get much out of it. Most of the OT may as well have been in Hebrew. The NT was easier to understand, but Jesus seemed to be telling the disciples and others that some of them would live to see His coming. That wasn't what I'd been taught. I couldn't tolerate the doubt this caused me so I had to conclude I was just too dumb to understand it. Keep in mind this was before I had heard of Preterism. After I retired 3 1/2 years ago I decided to make another attempt. I would sit and read and before long find myself nodding off. And I got about as much out of it while nodded off as when awake! I would hear something on a religious documentary and not knowing where to go in the Bible to see if it were true, I turned to the internet. Before long I stumbled upon a Preterist site. The more I read the more sense it made. Suddenly the NT came alive, and so did I. I've been studying intently - sometimes obsessivly - ever since. Now I'm by no means an expert - if what I know would fill a kitchen cupboard then what I don't know would fill a warehouse, but I hope this is helpful to you. Researching to try to answer your questions has been helpful to me. Tom |
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3 | Why 70 A.D. and why predictions | Matt 16:28 | Tomret | 183851 | ||
Hi Brian, Sorry, I misunderstood the focus of your question to be, why is the study of Jesus predictions and 70 AD of importance? Was John the only one left? Not long ago I searched for info on disciples' deaths and found a virtual void. What is your source for this? Of possible interest to you might be http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1878_russell_parousia/russell_parousia_03d.html : Opening of the Seventh Seal, continues Russell's commentary, Rev. 8 through 11. The last trumpet sounds, the Judgement is come. He says the two witnesses were Jesus brother James and Peter. He rejects as a fable the claim that Peter was crucified upside down - at his request so as not to die in the same manner as Jesus - in Rome by order of Nero. Cited as proof of Peter's crucifixion is Jesus' prediction of Peter's martydom at John 21:18, but the language does not indicate crucifixion as the means. And I think it highly unlikely that the evil despot Nero would find mercy to grant Peter's request. Now, this is not proof of course but the conclusions of the commentator, and to me a plausible scenario that would match the Truth spoken by Jesus. I beleive the disciples hearing Jesus say to them, "34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." could have had no other understanding than that their generation - them and others living at that time - were the ones meant, and that after all signs detailed from verse 4-33 were fulfilled, then would be His Coming. I agree He couldn't reveal more than the Father would allow and to do so would be to sin. Moreover, to say He didn't know if He did know would also be a sin. During His transformation to human form, He had to have had many of man's limitations. He truly didn't know the day and hour. And He was tempted, experienced the emotions of a man, and felt pain, oh what pain! No the Mt. of Olive has not split, nor has the sun went dark, etc. But if it were ever to happen, it would be the end of life on earth then eventually our solar system at the least. Wouldn't that mean that God has broken the promise made in Gen. 8:21,22? Since I don't see that as possible I have to conclude this type language is figurative or symbolic. Matt. 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." appear - phaino: can mean to be seen but also to appear to the mind, seem to one's judgment or opinion. tribe - phule: a tribe, in the NT all the persons descending from one of the twelve sons of the patriarch Jacob, a nation, people. earth - ge: can mean earth as a whole but also a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region. As far as I know no one has ever suggested OT descriptions of God coming in the clouds was a literal visible event. I beleive Jesus return in judgement happened in 70AD, but I agree it is still imperative we be ready to meet our Maker for we know not when that might be. Two days for us or for God? Tom |
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4 | Why 70 AD. and why predictions? | Matt 16:28 | Tomret | 183787 | ||
Brian, I hope I'm not out of line since you addressed Coper, but I would like to share a few thoughts on this. You have heeded the most important teaching in asking for and receiving the salvation of Jesus. Will all this discussion about what happened when or who did what have any bearing on your salvation? Of course not. But what about the lost person? He has heard of this salvation offered and it sounds much better than the alternative. He dives into the NT with zeal and encounters these very plain prophesies of Jesus regarding His parousia and judgement. He's confused - the Church says all this is still future. Was Jesus misquoted? Was He wrong? Did He deliberately deceive those He was speaking to so as to confuse them for some reason? Maybe starting with the OT will help clarify. Then he comes to the test of a prophet: Deut. 18:22, "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Many atheists and others use these "failed" prophesies of Jesus (especially Matthew 24) to "prove" He was NOT the Messiah! Maybe this lost person will continue searching for the truth, or maybe he'll try some other religion. True, only the Father knew the day and hour but Matt. 16:28; 24:34 and others narrowed the time frame to a specific period - a generation, the ones to which He spoke. Finally, the Preterist view is important to me beause the Bible makes more sense. Before it frequently contradicted what I had been taught. I should have been looking for what I'd been taught to match the Bible, not vice-versa. I feel blessed to have found Preterism. God bless the internet - well, some of it! Praying for guidance in your quest, Tom |
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