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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Unanswered Bible Questions Author: rodent_tamer Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Roman documentation of Christs execution | NT general Archive 1 | rodent_tamer | 182201 | ||
Do Roman police reports or documentation exists of the crucifixion of Christ and absence of his body after burial? | ||||||
2 | Was the creation account viewd literally | Gen 1:1 | rodent_tamer | 182195 | ||
Historically speaking, was the creation account in Genesis viewed by Jewish theologians/scholars as literal or illustrative? | ||||||
3 | Requirements of a valid marriage? | Rom 13:1 | rodent_tamer | 182182 | ||
What constitutes marriage? What does scripture constitute as marriage? I've been studying this topic and this is where I've gotten so far. I'd appreciate corrections, comments and input if you so incline. Here are a few examples found in scripture where marriage was deemed valid. The first marriage took place between Adam and Eve. Eve was given to Adam as his wife by God. The 2 became one flesh. No civil law existed at that time; no piece of paper was signed. God married them. The 2 were joined directly by God. Was there a ceremony? Witnesses? Legal papers drawn up? No. I’m not making an argument in favor of marriages without witnesses, or legal paper work, but I’m presenting the examples of marriages found in scripture. For me, my question is who has the authority to sanction a marriage and what does God require to take place for a marriage union to be valid? We know that in some states the law recognizes “common law” marriage as a legal marriage through cohabitation of a said amount of time. It could be argued that marriage thru cohabitation and consummation is consistent with scripture (at least in Old testament) so if the law deems common law marriage as legal marriage does God view it as binding as well? I don’t know. Thus far I have not found examples in scripture that describes what a God sanctioned marriage looked like in terms of a ceremony, legal recognition and as to who should perform or have the authority to perform the ceremony. We do know there were wedding celebrations and I imagine in Jewish tradition there would have been some sort of ceremony involving a rabbi, witnesses or parental authorization required. Marriages, for the most part were arranged by the husband to be and the father of the female. I wonder if she had a choice in that tradition when she became of age. In my recent exploration of this topic I have found in scripture a few examples where marriages came into existence through cohabitation and consummation. In these examples I don’t see a ceremony, festivities, witnesses, a rabbi’s authority presiding, public vows being exchanged or the government’s legal recognition. Here are 3 examples of marriage through cohabitation and consummation found in scripture cited here on the forum. (I forgot who referenced it, but the scripture references are correct) 1. Deut 21:10 A soldier’s procedure to follow in order to marry a captive woman of the conquered enemy. (This passage sort of troubles me because it seems like forced consummation is sanctioned, but I am hoping I am misunderstanding it.) 2. Gen 16:2 indicates how Abram (who was already married to Sarai) took her maid, Haga, to wife. 3. Gen 29:20 is the clearest evidence of them all and is the story of Jacob, Rachel and Leah. Jacob worked 7 years for the hand of Rachel, the younger sister. After the wedding celebration, the father sent the older sister Leah to the marriage bed instead because it was their custom to give the older daughter in marriage before the younger. Jacob woke up the next morning to find that he had actually consummated a marriage with Leah, the older sister. After confronting the father, Rachel was sent to him one week later to wife. In this story, there was only one wedding feast which obviously involved Rachel. Therefore the marriage to Leah was due solely to cohabitation and consummation. Under the old covenant, multiple marriages for men were allowed and adultery, from what I gather, seems to be defined as marrying or lying with another man’s wife. (Example: David and Bathsheba) Fornication outside of marriage for both males and females was punishable by death. (Unless the woman was raped against her will) In the New Testament, Paul instructs that a marriage is to be between one man and one woman. Monogamy not polygamy. Thus far all I can find in the New Testament regarding marriage is how believers are to behave to their spouse once married, but I don’t see anything as to what constitutes marriage or rather how God recognizes marriage. We are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, but that passage does not convince me that it is specifically referring to marriage, though it is safe to draw the conclusion it would logically apply to marriage. What are your thoughts? If anyone could point me to any biblically sound online sources on this topic, I'd surely appreciate it. |
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4 | Was human propogation incestuous? | Bible general Archive 3 | rodent_tamer | 182186 | ||
If Adam and Eve were the first and only humans, did the propogation of the human species occur incestually? | ||||||
5 | Good point | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 182143 | ||
Ebrain, You make a very intersting point. You are right to conclude that one of the parties is not a christian. The girl is a christian and the man is not. I guess the critical question I am asking is did God join them together or did the state join them together? Or more importantly, Does God recognize this joining as binding because the state recognized it as binding? What makes this case different is that both parties were breaking the law by pretending they were really believing and intending to uphold the vow they were taking. They both were not only unwilling in their consciounce to "join" together, but they didn't believe they were joining together. It was an intentionally deceptive vow to the state in order to avoid deportation. If one christian makes a vow to marry a nonbeliever in good conscience (ie willingly and honestly), though it would be in clear violation to God's instructions, I think God would still hold them bound to that "joining" even if God didn't will it. The believer's disobedient act would have tragic consequences----a miserable marriage, an unequal union. Are you saying that all those believers out there who have disobediently married unbelievers aren't really married in the sight of God? In these recent posts, from my understanding, the argument has been made that since God instructs us to obey the governing authorities (Romans 13), the couple was indeed married in God's eyes even though the governing authority was deceived and their own law broken. That is, since man's law recognizes it as a true marriage(a piece of paper was signed), then so does God. My critical question is since man's law was clearly broken, does God still consider that illegal broken law as lawful and therefore binding? The state never found out that the law was broken, but if they did, the sham marriage would never have been recongnized as lawfully binding. So if the sham marriage would have been dissolved would God then be bound to dissolve it as well? I am arguing that since God knew it was a sham, He never joined them to begin with even though the state did so through deception. In other words, God is not subject to man's law, but rather man's law is subject to God's higher law. I do not believe God sanctioned this union since He knew it was not genuine. Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. I should also mention there were additional critical details about this coulple that could help you understand the circumstances better.I will share them on a separate post because there is not enough room here. |
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6 | Only words count God? | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 182039 | ||
Hi Mark, As for Leviticus 27, I do not understand what those passages have to do with this specific issue. I didn't read anything there that had to do with a "foolish vow". It just seems to give a set of instructions as how to make special vows to dedicate persons to the Lord by giving equivalent values. Before I address Matthew 23, let me begin by saying that I think it was wrong for the 2 people to make deceptive vows for personal gain. Well, the man made the deceptive vow for his own personal gain and the woman made a deceptive vow for his personal gain. In either case, it was deception and thus morally wrong, not just illegal. It is common sense to know that the Lord would see deceit as a sin. Before I go any further, please explain to me what kind of vows are being referred to here in Matthew 23? I do not understand what kind of vows were being made. For example: "Woe to you blind guides! You say,if anyone swears by the temple it means nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath." (matt.23:16) What oaths were being made? What is this oath system that the pharisees were regulating? What does the bible mean by "swearing"? Let me see if I'm following you correctly. So what God holds you to is not your thoughts/intentions, but your audible words? Let me draw you a picture: This is what the girl literally did on that day. First before the ceremony was to take place she said this audibly in a prayer to God: "God the words that I am about to make in that room to the mayor (who was performing the ceremony), are not true. I do not vow to marry this man. You know in my heart this is false and though I know that it's wrong to lie, I am doing it with the best of intentions. " During the ceremony when she was asked: "do you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband?" Her mouth said: "I do" and her thoughts finished the sentence with the word "not". Again I do not question the immorality of the deceit, but I am trying to stress to you that her frame of mind was one that was definitively not saying "I do" to God or to the man. They were both complicite in this deception. The way she rationalized the deceit was by believing she was doing this for a greater good (i.e helping the guy not get deported) and she also believed at the time that since it was a civil ceremony and not before God that it would not count as valid in God's eyes. She has since then realized that the deceit in the first place was wrong. I feel that you are understanding this as though she made an impulsive rash decision or that she was thinking "oh maybe I really mean to marry him". It wasn't that she made this vow with the intent to keep it, she went into this vow with the specific intent to NOT keep it. The pharisees said many things with their mouths, but God knew the intent of their hearts. The law, the law, the law. I feel like that is the focus here. The specifications of the law. Whether it was made by the alter or by the gold of the alter. What is more sacred? The signed marriage license which "proves" that vow valid or the inward vow/heart/prayer that truly makes that vow sacred? Her audible vow was in truth a lie, while God would dissaprove of lying, I can't believe that God would hold her bound to that vow and doom her to a life of loneliness. |
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7 | if God knew how can it be valid? | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 182025 | ||
Hi Jeff, How can a legal contract be valid if the people going into that contract INTENTIONALLY lie about the provisions of that contract? If the state was aware the contract was entered under false pretenses, the state would make the contract null and void and the deception would have legal consequences. So to follow your logic, if the state is informed that the people intentionally lied and the state anulls that contract, will then God recognize that contract as valid or as if it never took place? Is God bound to the law of man here in this instance? Or does he say “too bad, you signed on the dotted line, you now have to be married to a person who you falsely vowed to marry” I would agree with your logic if the two parties entered into the contract genuinely and intentionally and it would not matter if they did it without understanding the seriousness of marriage. It would not matter whether it was in a church or on a ship, whether they were christians or satanists, whether they were in love or in an arranged marriage....a marriage vow is a marriage vow and since the institution of marriage is from God, he holds all those who made that vow accountable. The problem in this case is that these people did not make a real spiritual vow to each other or to God and the verbal vow they made to the state was not only a lie, but unfulfilled. According to your thinking these people really married and since they got a legal divorce, they are sinning. By divorcing unjustifiably (since there was no unfaithfulness or dissertion), their divorce is not recognized by God and therefore if they enter into any other relationship, they are committing adultery. Now, let's suppose after all this, the people go to the state and admit to their deception and apart from the legal consequences (fines, jail, deportation),suppose the state then declares that this marriage was never valid and dissolves it as if it never happened, are these people according to God, then absolved and free to marry under God's moral law? I'm not trying to philosophize or find loop holes, I am trying to understand what, according to God, makes a marriage valid. I am trying to use logic to understand what you are claiming. It seems to me that a vow can only be broken if that vow was intended and meant, but if that vow was a KNOWINGLY false vow it makes the vow invalid to begin with even if the state was unaware that it was a false one. God knew it was false and since he is the ultimate determiner only he can decide. Marriage, as scripture emphasizes, is not merely a legal contract, but a spiritual/sacred one. If marriage is a God made contract, not only a legally recognized one and part of the stipulations of that contract requires to intentionally promise certain things on a spiritual plane and false testimony was given and God knew this, how can God accept it as a true vow? I guess my point is how can God accept the falsity of that vow to be true if He knew it was false to begin with? The fact that the state was unaware of the falsity of that vow does not make the vow genuine, it just means that they were deceived. If a marriage covenant is defined by 2 key things: 1). 2 people vowing to each other and to God to love, cherish, be faithful and stay with the other till death parts them. 2.) The 2 people vowing to uphold this covenant publically with witnesses that can testify to this vow. If this is the definition and the first stipulation did not take place and the second one was a false one, I can't help but question the validity of the covenant. |
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8 | could use your wisdom | Matt 24:38 | rodent_tamer | 182003 | ||
Thanx Doc for your insight regarding my questions. I don't know if you've seen my question regarding my friend who married someone through the justice of the peace in order to help them get their citizenship, but I'd like to know what your opinion is of this. Please note that this person didn't marry the illegal alien because she believed she was really marrying him...ie. it wasn't like this impulse of "hey I love you let's get married" and then realized she made a mistake. She believed she was helping this person and that since it wasn't a marriage in a church before God, that it wasn't ultimately true. She prayed before God and declared to him this was not a genuine oath of marriage. At the time, she didn't think the law of deportation was just and believed she was helping a person in need. Since then, she realizes this was a poor decision because she deceived the state and did something illegal. I've been showing her the responses from this thread and she is freaking out. She never would have done this if she thought God would have recognized it as a real marriage. What is she supposed to do? Try to have a relationship/marriage with this estranged person she helped several years ago? He is not even a christian and both her and this guy are now in separate relationships of their own. She hopes to marry the christian man she is involved with now. Is she committing adultery? Since the illegal alien friend she married falsely would not want to be with her, is she doomed to remain single for the rest of her life? I could really use your wisdom regarding this. She is devastated. Also note that after the guy got his citizenship, they legally divorced. |
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9 | is it wrong to live with someone, but... | Bible general Archive 3 | rodent_tamer | 181989 | ||
Is it wrong for two christians in a committed relationship to live together, though they have remained sexually pure? Their intention is to one day marry, but are waiting to save money. They are both committed to remaining sexually inactive and have been doing very well with it. Not really struggling as some would imagine given the living situation. | ||||||
10 | state vs God | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 181986 | ||
I agree that part of the validity of marriage is when it is publically recognized, but the central core of the covenant vow is when the 2 parties vow to enter into this contract not just with their words, but with their hearts. I'm not referring here to the feeling of love. There have been a plethora of people who did not feel love for one another, but married with the intention to love. That is, they truly entered into a covenant in which they both agreed to uphold. These two friends of mine essentially purposely lied to the state when they promised what they promised. In their hearts, they intentionally defrauded the state, but not God. They both were in agreement that this was a false promise and even told God that they did not mean what they were about to do. They did not believe they were entering into a covenant before God. I realize that according to the state and to the law, they did marry, but before God did they really? If you are going to base a true biblical marriage soley on the recognition of the state, then what do you do with gay marriages that are recognized legally by the state? I am not saying that there is not a crucial legal dimension neccessary for marriage to be valid (i.e public,witnessed declaration), but I am saying that the most fundamental dimension to what makes a marriage valid in the eyes of God is when the two parties truly agree in their hearts that they genuinely intend and promise to hold up this covenant. If they simply mouthed the words, but did not inwardly intend to uphold them how can God recognize it as valid? | ||||||
11 | sexual intercourse makes one married? | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 181979 | ||
no they didn't consummate it. But since the vow they made with their mouths a lie, doesn't it make the marriage void? Are you saying that sexual intercourse with anyone outside of marriage makes one married in the eyes of God? |
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12 | did only men have the right to divorce? | Bible general Archive 3 | rodent_tamer | 181973 | ||
In old testament times could a woman divorce her husband if he committed adultery? Or did only men have this right? Were the offended wives "stuck" with an adulterous husband? |
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13 | Is marrying for citizenship real? | Matt 19:5 | rodent_tamer | 181968 | ||
I have 2 friends who got married before the justice of the peace, but their marriage was not real. By this I mean, one person married the other only so that the other could get their citizenship. Both parties said the words, but in their hearts, did not mean them. I know they did something illegal, but the person who did it did it because they wanted to help the other....to prevent the other person from getting deported. There was no monetary transaction or emotional commitment...they both faked it. Now even though it could be argued that was in poor judgment and deceptive to the state, do you think just because it was an outward public verbal commitment as opposed to a genuine inward commitment they are really married in the eyes of God? Did they really get married? They have since divorced after the citizenship was attained. One of the parties is a christian and is very concerned about this. She did it only to help the other person get their citizenship papers, but never meant it in her heart. | ||||||
14 | did def. of marriage change over time? | Gen 2:24 | rodent_tamer | 181971 | ||
I'm having a hard time understanding how God could sanction polygamy in the bible. I'm referring to David, Solomon etc. Did the idea of marriage between one woman and one man change over time? According to the biblical definition of marriage, was not David an adulterer since he had multiple wives? Are there any verses in the bible that condone or condemn polygamy? | ||||||
15 | How did bible culture recognize marriage | Is 62:5 | rodent_tamer | 181975 | ||
In biblical times (both old and new) what constituted a marriage? What was the ceremony like? What made you married in the eyes of God? Our modern culture recognizes marriage very differently it seems i.e "common law marriage" etc. I just want to get a historical feel to how the biblical culture recognized marriage. |
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16 | Did pre-judaic cultures marry? | Matt 24:38 | rodent_tamer | 181962 | ||
We know that God invented the institution of marriage. Historically, were the jews the first to perform marriages and marry? Were there earlier cultures or cultures outside Judaic influence marrying? Do we have evidence of this? |
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17 | When is divorce recognized? On paper? | Matthew | rodent_tamer | 181966 | ||
My boyfriend once married a nonbeliever and when he married her he was a nonbeliever too. Sometime toward the end of the marriage he became a christian. Through out his marriage he was very faithful and tolerant of his wife. His wife struggled with alcohol and drug abuse through their marriage and he never considered leaving her because of this even when he wasn't a christian. One day his wife committed adultery with another woman, announced that she was now in love with this other woman and left him for this other woman.Now here's the situation. He is not legally divorced yet because he cannot yet afford to file for divorce. The only thing stopping him is the money. He fully intends to do so and wanted this the minute she breached her wedding covenant through adultery. Now here's my question, though he considers himself not bound to her any longer and has been physically separated from her for over a year, does God still consider him married because the divorce did not take place legally? Is he committing adultery if he is dating someone else and still legally married or did he become free from the marriage contract the minute she committed adultery? What does the bible say about this? Is this merely a technicality? Also once he gets divorced and since his divorce would be biblically justifiable, is he free to remarry? |
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18 | Wat office did womn hold in early church | Rom 16:1 | rodent_tamer | 180886 | ||
I know there were women deaconesses and teachers in the early church. Were there other offices besides these that women held in the early church? Does anyone know the names of the women who held some sort of leadership role in early church? (teachers, deaconesses etc) Also direct me to the verses please. Thank you, -M |
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19 | How wer early church services structured | NT general Archive 1 | rodent_tamer | 180902 | ||
What were the functions of preachers,elders, deacons, teachers and pastors of the early church? Was there a hierarchy of these roles? I know the early church met in homes. Did they also gather in a larger assembly? Did one person preach a message like is done today? Do we have any documentation of the structure of these gatherings outside the bible? I know Paul would plant the church, but would he appoint one pastor to lead it? I guess I'm just trying to get an idea of how the early church gatherings were structured and how they evolved to today's traditions. -M |
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20 | How educated were the Jews in JC's time? | OT general | rodent_tamer | 180533 | ||
What specific level of education did the Jews have during Jesus' time? Was the common Jew literate? | ||||||