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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | believer53 | 205701 | ||
how is divining different than the 'laying out' of the fleece' in the old testament? do you think dousing(looking 4 water) is sinful? | ||||||
2 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | Tamara Brewington | 205702 | ||
Dear Believer53, The laying out of fleece was actually something the Lord decided to answer tha Gideon did out of a lack of faith. Think about it a little -Gedeon says If you will deliver Israel through me, as You have spoken, etc." We can stop right there, Gideon says something very important here, he says, "as You have spoken". God had already told Gideon what He would do. Then in the next verse 37 Gideon divises a test to confirm what God already promised to do! Let's not even get into you shall not test the Lord your God... God decides in His own mercy and sovereign will to answer Gideon's request for a confirmation of His word to Gideon. That is not diving anything that is asking God to confirm His word and only becuase God decided to answer Gideon are we hearing about in the Bible. Not to teach us to divine things, but as an expample of God interacting with man in a miraculous way that was never, ever repeated, nor will it be. This is what the Bible says about diviners, which would include dousing as dousing as it is a form of divination; Deuteronomy 18:10-13 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. Deuteronomy 18:14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has nto allowed you to do so. Dousing is done by having one with the power of divination go out and point a stick at the ground in order to "divine" where the water is. Persons are said to be born with this power, it is said this power runs in families and the like. I would say this - being a psychic of any kind is done by the power of the devil and sometimes quite effectively and there are many things folks may be able to truly acccomplish by the power of the devil. I am sure that being a pychic can be real because I used to be one before I got delieverd from the power of the devil. I used to be able to walk up to folks and know their personall business down to details I should not be knowing, I married into a family that did this on the side for a living part time and they would sit there in the fanciest hotels where there were long long lines of people waiting to be read for ten dollars a pop. The power of the devil has deceived many for century upon century with impressive feats of knowledge and divinations of all kinds, dousing is just one of many that does work, but is evil. The devil has a kingdom of which he is ruler and it is called the world forces of this darkness, called so by Paul, it is also said by Jesus that the earth is the kingdom of the devil. This stuff is very real and not all supersition based on nothing, but it is indeed evil and you should gaurd your heart and your very life from it by studying the Bible to find out every truth in it. God's Day To You, Just a evil sinner who got saved by His Infinte Grace, Tamara |
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3 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | DocTrinsograce | 205710 | ||
Where do we find that Gideon laid out the fleece "out of lack of faith?" | ||||||
4 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | Tamara Brewington | 205719 | ||
Dear Doc, I will ask you to try to see that Gideon had no need to ask for a confirmation of something he shoud have just taken on faith... There was no need to ask for a confirmation of what he knew he heard was there? Here do you like this language better; Gideon asked for a confirmation of what he already was clearly told and should have known God would do, and that constitutes some lack on his part of a complete trust that God would deliver receiving a sign of confirmation. If that is still out of order please Doc take the time and :))))))) patience to teach my why it is out of order, or wrong thinking verbiage, verbiage, verbiage... I am trying to get at the reason why Gideon seemed to be needing confirmation - God is a solid promiser what is not clear about being told once? Gideon had that once being shown by fleece was not enough, and asked that God's anger not burn against him for asking twice - he was aware that there might be a problem between God that he was asking... We can say for sure that he had doubt about what God promised or he would not have asked for a sign of confirmation would he? That is where I started out from... God Bless, Tam |
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5 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | DocTrinsograce | 205785 | ||
Dear Tamara, I asked because I thought there might be a Scripture that actually commented on Gideon's faith, one that I'd not seen. John Gill said of Gideon in this narrative (Judges 6:37), "not that he doubted of it [God's promise of salvation for Israel], but was willing to have a confirmation of his faith; and perhaps his view was more for the encouragement of those that were with him than himself, that he desired the following signs; and though he had had one before, that was to show that he was truly an angel that spoke to him, and not to ascertain the salvation that should be wrought by him; though that might be concluded from his being an angel that spoke to him, and assured him of it." Regarding verse 39, Gill goes on to say that Gideon was "...conscious to himself that it showed great presumption and boldness in him to repeat his request, and that it had the appearance of great diffidence and distrust in him, after he had been indulged with such a sign to confirm his faith; but as it was not so much on his own account as others, and promising to ask no more favours of this kind, he hoped his boldness would not be resented." I'd tend not to presume outside of what the church has generally taught on this question. To surmise without Scriptural grounding that "Gideon lacked faith" sets up an unsafe precedent. In Him, Doc |
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6 | laying out fleece vs divining | Judg 6:38 | Tamara Brewington | 205803 | ||
Dear Doc, Thank you for that insight there about what the church has generaly taught... I have noticed you have a propensity to refer to what the compendium of theologians and commentators in the church have taught. I would say it is good to do this, but I would not rely on it primarily myself before trying to see what the scripture is saying, not saying you are either. Of course we take into account that these great men have had the time to study these things for longer and more intesnly than we might ever hope to do. I like the idea of starting with the scriptures first as a starting point in order to arrive at a conclusion; Quote, What is Theology, by Tamara Brewington, excerpt; A Starting Point for the Study of Christian Doctrine The first question that has to be answered in doing theology is where to find the sources for composing a doctrine and the sources are as follows: 1.Natural Theology – general revelation of God, i.e., the parts of creation in the universe are examined in order to extract definite facts about God and human nature as empirical evidence. 2.Tradition – the teachings of the compendium of persons and institutions which comprise the church fathers, theologians, and the Universal Christian Church throughout history provide a foundation of beliefs as a basis for what ought to be believed as being normative. 3.The Scriptures – the Bible as a document is the authority for the Christian faith ruling what should be believed and acted upon. 4.Experience – the religious experience of the Christian provides authoritative divine information from which to provide a foundation of beliefs as a basis for what ought to be normative. The scriptures provide the best source as the divinely inspired word of God from which to gather materials for composing a doctrine because it is the highest authority out of the four sources from which to choose. I would go in order by 3, 2, 1, and 4 with great caution. I was unfamiliar with this example by John Gill that you gave, I have never, ever heard this take on this passage before... Quote, MacArthur Bible Commentary, by John MacArthur, pg. 277, par.6; Gideon's two requests for signs in the fleece should be viewed as weak faith; even Gideon recognized this when he said, "Do not be angry with me" (v.39) since God had already specifically promised His presence and victory (vv. 12,14,16). But they were also legitimate requests for confirmation of victory against seemingly impossible odds (6:5, 7:2, 12) God nowhere reprimande Gideon, but was very compassionate in giving what his inadequacy requested. In 7:10-15 God volunteered a sign to boost Gidneon's faith. He should have believed God's promises i n7:9, but he needed to bolstering, so God graciously gave it without chastisement. I am thinking about John Gill's statement there that; "and perhaps his view was more for the encuoragment of those that were with him than himself". I do not find that very credible because Gideon seemed to need a personal confirmation for himself because he says to God, "then I will know that You will deliver Israel throug me,". Perhaps you see why I came to the conclusion there that Gideon was seeking for God to confirm what God has already said and that it was a testament of the state of his faith or so. Thank you for the information... God's Day To You, Tamara |
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