Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thithing loan | Bible general | beautybees | 241148 | ||
Thithing loan | ||||||
2 | Thithing loan | Bible general | DocTrinsograce | 241149 | ||
Hi, beautybees... Welcome to the forum! Answering a question that isn't a complete sentence is pretty difficult. Would you please explain more clearly? In Him, Doc |
||||||
3 | Thithing loan | Bible general | Movingon | 241154 | ||
Hello beautybees! As Doc says: its hard to answer a incomplete question. However, I will try to be as enlightening as I can. To begin, we must understand one of the greatest problems in the church today which is, we have been misled by the translators in calling what is called The Gospels in the New Testament and therefore making church doctrine from them. The Lord was speaking to Israel about the Kingdom of David; and earthly kingdom and its restoration if they would repent and believe He was the Messiah the prophets spoke of. Israel at that time was yet under the Mosaic laws including the keeping of Ten Commandments and all other things Moses commanded. He said to His disciples one day: "The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do" (Matt. 23:2-3). Are we to do as the Pharisee say; keep the Sabbath, pay a tithe, and make animal sacrifices? Give a writing of divorce to our wife if she doesn’t please us. Without doubt, by questioning the paying of a tithe, some will respond by asking, are you saying we should not pay the pastor a salary? But it might be asked: where was it ever said by anyone that the pastor should be paid a tithe of our income? What is being said is, nowhere in the NT is it said that we are to give 10 percent of our income to anyone. The teaching of the apostle Paul who founded the present church and Dispensation of Grace never fixed any figure as to what believers are to give. He said we are to give freely as the Lord has blessed us, and according to our conscience. We are not under the Mosaic Law. Paul said to the Corinthians church: “So let each one give as he purposes in his own heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Cor. 9:7). If Paul believed we are to pay a tithe surely he would have mentioned it along with the above. Acts 15:28-29 give us the necessities for this dispensation where nothing is mentioned about a tithe, Sabbath keeping, or any such things. Is the church composed of 12 tribes? If as the Amillennialists claim, we are the new Israel, to be consistent then, the church should be divided into 12 tribes. The tithe for the 11 tribes was for the upkeep of the tribe of Levi, who had no allotment of land in Israel when it was divided. And to be even more consistent, where is the allotment of lands for the eleven tribes of the church? Are they in America, or Israel, or if we are the kingdom, the world? The irrational and ridiculous can easily be seen when we turn the Scriptures into such fantasies through the amillennial or dispensational teaching who both sanction the present division of the Old and New Covenants. If it were figuratively said that Abraham the father of the faithful including us referred to as the spiritual children of Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek, then we should do the same. Where did Abraham give any of his money? What Abraham gave was 10 percent of what he recovered that belonged to his nephew Lot, and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah. Things that had been taken by king Chedorlaomer and those kings with him (Gen. 14:16-20). It is clear that that incident cannot be used as grounds for believers paying a tithe today. At the time the Lord ministered before the cross, the present assembly of Christ was yet a mystery (Eph. 3:1-9). No doubt my remarks will raise many questions that need to be answered. But I cannot answer a question that someone hasn’t asked. So please ask for an explanation of any whatever you wish and I will try to answer it. It might help if one read Gal. 2:2, 7-9 where Paul explained his gospel to the 12 before him. The meeting is amplified in Acts ch. 15 where the 12 gave their opinion of what kind of behavior is expected of us today; the Gentile believers. It is plain that in the above meeting of the 12 with Paul the 12 were yet offering the kingdom to Israel which we cannot do today and nowhere did they including Peter ever establish a Gentile church, that is what Paul was called for. And by the way, the New Covenant (Testament) started with the book of Acts (Heb. 9:14-22). Neither did Peter start the present assembly of Christ on the Day of Pentecost or any other day. In His grace Movingon |
||||||
4 | Thithing loan | Bible general | Beja | 241155 | ||
Movingon, I'd like to understand your personal dispensational take on scripture a little more precisely. I definitely understand it in broad brush strokes, but I'd like to ask a few precise questions to help me test the edges of it. If you do not wish to answer them that is fine, but as you've seemed to always been happy to respond in the past I feel encouraged to ask you. However, should you choose to respond I do have one request. Please try to answer my questions as concisely as you possibly can. When two people are trying to understand one another one of the surest way to cause it to fail is to answer too much. A person says so many things and the listener has such a great number of objections, uncertainties, and needs for clarification that the conversation is effectively killed as their is no hope of untangling it all. This difficulty is magnified on the forum where we have a limited space to type and the conversation even has the chance of progressing on its own before I even read the response. So if you wish to answer, please try to answer the question as precisely as you possibly can, trusting that you need not re-explain the entire system and how you feel misunderstanding this has been that which has derailed the church. Nor do you need to spend time trying to persuade me. My question: You state that you do not believe the gospels apply to us, but do you believe the great commission of Matthew 28 was a commission to build the church or was it for the disciples to go out offering the kingdom? Perhaps said another way, when they went out making disciples and baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was this building the church or the kingdom of that previous dispensation? In Christ, Beja |
||||||
5 | Thithing loan | Bible general | Movingon | 241161 | ||
Hi Beja, after so long a time. I completely missed your response to an earlier post I made. Please forgive me. “You state that you do not believe the gospels apply to us, but do you believe the great commission of Matthew 28 was a commission to build the church or was it for the disciples to go out offering the kingdom? Perhaps said another way, when they went out making disciples and baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was this building the church or the kingdom of that previous dispensation?” In Christ, Beja The so-called Great Commission was spoken to the disciples about and offering of the kingdom to Israel that they had been offering for the past three years. Again they were sent out beginning with the book of Acts to offer that same kingdom in the Great Commission. The present Dispensation of Grace and his gospel was given to Paul and began in Acts 13:2, 46-47 in AD 46-47 as stated by Paul in Eph. 3:1-9. I realize I have raised many questions in my posts and would be happy to send you with out charge two books by Email have written. I just offered a couple of books to kamschoolgrad that I wrote some years ago free of charge to anyone desiring them. When I again began posting in this study site I was accused of peddling my books. Well, if giving them away is peddling, then I am guilty. According to the instructions on what is allowable on this site I can offer them to anyone I choose without cost. I would be please to send them to anyone through email with Lockman’s gracious permission. There are more of your questions that space allows me to answer here, but there are two books I have written that more than covers all your question and much more. “Theological Heresies That Shaped World History.” Published by Robert C. Voiles, Copyright 2007. “Understanding the Biblical Rapture.” Published by Robert C. Voiles, Copyright 2007. Email for either or all to *** pilgrim1931@suddenlink.net. If so desired I can include a “Chronology of the Bible.” copyright 2007 by the same author. In His grace Movingon |
||||||