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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226253 | ||
I guess if you are going to summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition that agrees with the desciption of Hades found in Luke 16:19-31 because they are from uninspired writers any further discussion on the subject is pointless. As for preexisting thoughts I never had any on the subject I viewed Luke 16 as a parable and never looked for any reality to confirm or deny it. I was doing research on Jewish teaching, in particular their view of death and eternity, it was from this research I began to understand their belief on the matter. I was then startled to learn that this newly discovered (by me) Jewish concept of Hades actually paralleled exactly Luke 16:19-31. So call it what you want but don't try to blame it on preexisting thoughts. I can definitively say I had absolutely none on this subject when I entered into this research. Have a great day. |
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2 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 226276 | ||
I am a Jewish believer. I will happily "summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition." I am able to do that because God has summarily discounted them. "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, And what kind of wisdom do they have?" (Jeremiah 8:8-9 NASB) "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;" (John 5:37-39 NASB) "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it." (Acts 7:51-53 NASB) "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them. So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs. For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:47-52 NASB) I would rather listen to the Pope than listen to those who have overtly and explicitly rejected the Word become flesh. |
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3 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | stjohn | 226278 | ||
Given some of the inane content of this thread, I am often reminded of something our Brother Hank wrote, and I'm so glad I asked him directly if I could quote him on it, and I never get tired of doing so!-John “I lay no claim whatever to any expertise on matters involving High Theology or anything of the kind, so I'm fairly well limited when it comes to trying to connect the dots. And that is good! It forces me to attempt to speak only where the Bible speaks and to keep my mouth shut where the Bible is silent. I have enough trouble learning and digesting what the Bible clearly reveals, and so it leaves me no time to speculate and ruminate on the things which our loving and all-wise Father chose not to elaborate. God's eternal and unchanging word will be around long after I'm gone. Few indeed are they who care about my opinions now and fewer still will remember them after I've gone. So my candid view about questions such as call for speculations is this: If God did not choose to reveal details, is it our business to worry very much about them? I really don't believe that God expects us to fill in the blanks ourselves nor needs man to take over where He left off, do you? Just how important is it to know about such things? The narrative has endured and imparted the message it was intended to impart for centuries as it is, without being gussied up with all these minute frills and details. Let's be content to learn from it all that it clearly reveals without tarnishing the sacred record by adding our worthless speculation and groundless guesses.” –Hank Hallmark |
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4 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226286 | ||
I totally agree with Hank's view when scripture is silent. And I think we would all be wise to remember this quote. However on the subject in question, silence is not the case. Jesus clearly painted a word picture of Hades. There are those that say we should discount the picture as only a parable and retain only the lesson the picture taught. Others like myself believe we should view the picture as painted and forgetting the many subtitles of theology accept what we see as a child would. Luke 18:17. If a child were to hear this parable, I believe would see both the picture as painted and hopefully also retain the lesson Jesus developed in the parable. Nothing more, but nothing less. Now if this violates the spirit of the forum, I think not, but if so, I do apologize. |
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5 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226288 | ||
EdB, You keep saying that in luke 16 "Jesus clearly painted a word picture of Hades." May I ask what specifically in that passage you would point to in order to prove that Jesus is speaking of two sections of Hell as oppossed to one person in Hell and another person in heaven being comforted by Abraham? In Christ, Beja |
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6 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226289 | ||
Thread, I can't help but to think about my own question, and what possible answers there might be in the passage. First I've shown clearly that the passages displays Abraham himself as being there. But if I recall at some point it was asked, how can one be IN another person's bosom? As if that would show that clearly a location must be meant by Abraham's bosom and not Lazarath being held to Abraham, the person's, side. Let's see if this holds up to scripture. Look with me at John 13:23 Here it is in the NASB Joh 13:23 There was reclining on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. Here again in young's literal Joh 13:23 And there was one of his disciples reclining (at meat) in the bosom of Jesus, whom Jesus was loving; I post YLT, because the NASB here has cleaned itup some for english. In the Greek both Luke16:23 and John 13:23 use the greek preposition en. It quite literally says that as they reclined there, John was "in" Jesus' bosom. However, quite clearly it meant laying upon his bosom, hence the NASB making it more understandable. So clearly "in his bosom" can very comfortably mean being held at Abraham's side. If this is not enough see these verses. Gen 16:5, Exo 4:6, Num 11:2, Ruth 4:16, 2 Sam 12:18, 1 Kin 1:2, 1 King 3:20, 1 King 17:19, Prov 6:27, Isa 40:11, Isa 49:22, Micah 7:5, Luke 6:38, John 1:18. I hope this shows conclusively that the word "in" is no reason to interpret Abraham's bosom as anything other than the man's bosom. However, lets see what Gill has to say. I dare say he's a man who knows Jewish thought quite well. Abraham's bosom is meant heaven, a phrase well known to the Jews, by which they commonly expressed the happiness of the future state: of Abraham's happy state they had no doubt; and when they spake of the happiness of another's, they sometimes signified it by going to Abraham. I know it might offend EdB that I continue the discussion after we called it off. Yet I feel that continuing to speak as if it is a given that luke is saying this deserves to be challenged, and that he should exegetically defend his interpretation of the passage before continuing to present it as a given. In Christ, Beja |
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7 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226293 | ||
To prove your point you refer to Gill but when I refer to the Talmud I'm in violation of Sola Scriptura. Is it fair to have two standards? One for you and another for me? Of course "in" can mean "in" as literally in or as meaning "in" as in being near. In heaven does our comfort come from another or from the Lord. When I get to heaven I may enjoy talking to Abraham but my comfort will come from the presence of the Lord. I won't be resting in Abraham's bosom if I understand scripture correctly. See there is something really missing in this description if it is of Heaven. That being the presence of the Lord which from all scripture I read "over shadows" all else. Abraham may be a great friend BUT my comfort comes from the comforter. |
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