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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226250 | ||
EdB, Its going to be hard to come to any real communication between us that is anything but us repeating our party lines unless we are willing to stop and evaluate points one at time and slowly. Therefore to that end, if you really want to analyze this with me, I will take the only passage of scripture you quoted and I will show you why I think it is utterly absurd to interpret it as if scripture is sugesting there is a location known as 'Abraham's Bosom.' Now, lets see Luke 16, what does it actually say? Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom." Now, it says he looked up and saw what? Abraham. He saw the person. Not a place called Abraham's bosom...he saw the person Abraham! If you have any doubts to this, read the rest of the passage and understand that he was speaking with whom? Abraham! So he saw the person, and he saw Lazarus in his bosom, in other words held to his side. The picture here is that he saw abraham holding and comforting Lazarus. So how on earth can you tell me that from this statement I must accept that this passage is teaching a place under the earth that is named Abraham's bosom, which was a temprory holding cell for righteous people until Christ come emptied them from the place called Abraham's bosom? I ask anybody with common sense to tell me this isn't a huge case of reading your pre-existing thoughts into the text. Indeed, this is your only passage! Everything else you bring is speculation by uninspired authors! If you want any address to the apostles creed, I refer you to John Calvin's address to itin the institutes of the Christian religion. So now, if you wish, debate my interpretation of Luke, or if you'd rather, put forward some other evidence for this elaborate view. But please, lets bring your evidence forward one piece at a time so that we might inspect the quality of the things you say. In Christ, Beja |
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2 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226253 | ||
I guess if you are going to summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition that agrees with the desciption of Hades found in Luke 16:19-31 because they are from uninspired writers any further discussion on the subject is pointless. As for preexisting thoughts I never had any on the subject I viewed Luke 16 as a parable and never looked for any reality to confirm or deny it. I was doing research on Jewish teaching, in particular their view of death and eternity, it was from this research I began to understand their belief on the matter. I was then startled to learn that this newly discovered (by me) Jewish concept of Hades actually paralleled exactly Luke 16:19-31. So call it what you want but don't try to blame it on preexisting thoughts. I can definitively say I had absolutely none on this subject when I entered into this research. Have a great day. |
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3 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226257 | ||
EdB, You state: "I guess if you are going to summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition that agrees with the description of Hades found in Luke 16" Response: I most certainly am going to dismiss it, and I feel you ought to give answer to my exegesis of Luke 16 before you just go on acting as if there is a parallel. You said: "...any further discussion on the subject is pointless." Response: Have you no scripture whatsoever then for these things you are teaching to young Christians? In Christ, Beja |
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4 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226264 | ||
Beja I'm sorry I hadn't notice any exegesis of Luke 16. I only saw you making statements about things that neither the Jewish Talmud, Luke 16 nor I said. Hades by both the Jewish Talmud and oral tradition is seen as a spiritual reality not some place under the ground as you suggest. I wonder who is speaking from pre existing thoughts? Also the Jews call the place Abraham's bosom Jesus called it paradise (today you will be with me in paradise)which fits the description of Lazarus seen in Abraham's bosom. How does a man get into the bosom of a another? Unless of course it is the name of a place rather than a description of a physical position of the man. As for teaching young Christians something that is off beat, is it not you who claims the Old Testament Saints entered heaven contrary to Jesus' clear edict that to do so you must pass through Him, and that door the Second or New Covenant was not opened yet? Let us be reasonable and hopefully civil about this, it is obvious to all that neither of us are going to change the others mind on the matter. Let us move on. God's richest blessings to you. |
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5 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226266 | ||
EdB, I'm tempted to reply to several things you said in your last post. You always seem to assert your view all over again in the posts where you intend to move on. However, as per your wishes I will let it drop with only one exception that I feel I must correct. You said, "it is obvious to all that neither of us are going to change the others mind." However, I insist that whether it be this day or sometime down the road, I stand more than ready to recant and accept the teaching should you be able to show me that it has sound basis in the word of God. May God bless you as well. In Christ, Beja |
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