Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226243 | ||
Jesus didn't go to Hell(Hades) to battle Satan but to preach the "Good News" to the rigtheous dead that resided in Abraham's bosom or paradise. Eph 4:8 Hell (Hades) as seen in Luke 16:19-31 and through Jewish teaching is the holding place for the dead. The unrighteous go to a hot dry place to await judgement and the righteous before Christ went to place called Abraham's bosom or Paradise. Since Jesus' resurrection the righteous dead now go directly to heaven to be with the Lord 2 Cor. 5:6-8. Further Satan was never in Hell(Hades) nor does he have any desire to be there. The hot dry side is filled with the unrighteous dead that are already lost so Satan doesn't care about them at all. The teaching that Jesus went to Hell and fought Satan is a fanasty invented by people that haven't fully read their Bible and have no idea what Jesus' work on the cross really meant and more importantly what it accomplished. The idea that Satan is in charge of hell is an idea birthed in Islam which is a false religion. |
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2 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226245 | ||
Glenda, I reply to Ed's post but really this is meant for the original poster. I do so because I want to comment on Ed's point but I'm not really wanting to get into a debate on it. I simply would like the original poster to know that the teaching that Christ went to a subsection of Hades known as paradise in order to preach the gospel to those that are dead is certainly not an undisputed teaching of scripture. Incase it isn't obvious, I personally think its rooted in completely missunderstanding a few passages. If any wish to discuss the passages I am happy to, but for the moment I merely wish to make readers aware that the passages ought to be studied themselves so they can come to their own conclusions. In Christ, Beja |
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3 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226247 | ||
Is Abraham's bosom empty or not? When we die do we go to Hades as we did before Christ or do we go to into His presence. If you say it is empty then someone had to empty it. I believe the Apostle's creed (thus the teachng of the early church) more or less confirms it was done by Jesus. Or do you think Luke 16:19-31 is made up to fit a parable? Howevere that becomes problematic since the Jews believed this before Jesus told the parable. I fail to believe Jesus would mislead them by using something they believed if it weren't true. So I fail to understand what you question? |
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4 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226248 | ||
EdB, I find no scripture whatsoever saying that Christ went to Hades. Second, I find no passage in SCRIPTURE that teaches a two fold division of hell where once good dead people lived. Second, I find no passage in scripture whatsoever that teaches some great jail break from one of those sections of hell after individuals are already there. I find no passage in scripture that teaches dead people were later preached the gospel so that they could be saved. In contrast, I see scripture affirm that the old testament saints saw the promises of Christ from afar and believed. So in short, I question the entire line of thought from start to finish. You ask me to accept your entire elaborate notion of all these things and then once granting all of that, you then say how do I argue against a minor point? The problem is that I see no reason anywhere to think that any of it is more than our own imagination. In Christ, Beja |
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5 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226249 | ||
Luke 16:19-31 definitely teaches a separation in Hell(hades) as does the Jewish Talmud and oral traditions. The Old Testament righteous definitely died looking for and trusting their Messiah but to think that alone saved them negates Jesus' proclaimation that He alone was the door. To enter through a door the door must exist and while Jesus is eternal the door he provided did not exist until the second covenant came into being. The early church believed Jesus went to Hell(hades) as evidenced by the Apostles creed. Now we realize the early church fathers weren't scripture but if we discount their teaching then we have to question why Jesus ever commissioned teachers. Paul was a teacher first and scripture writter second. Now if we accept Paul's teaching that those that died after Christ go into the presence of the Lord then we have to believe the righteous dead of the Old Testament had to have some kind of entrance into heaven. If they were in Abraham's bosom at the time Jesus told Luke 16:19-31 then we have to believe someone led them to heaven. I don't see any way to ignore Luke 16:19-31 I can't believe Jesus would virtually repeat the Jewish teaching on Hades if it weren't true. To the Jew they would have to take it as being a confirmation of what they already believed. |
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6 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226250 | ||
EdB, Its going to be hard to come to any real communication between us that is anything but us repeating our party lines unless we are willing to stop and evaluate points one at time and slowly. Therefore to that end, if you really want to analyze this with me, I will take the only passage of scripture you quoted and I will show you why I think it is utterly absurd to interpret it as if scripture is sugesting there is a location known as 'Abraham's Bosom.' Now, lets see Luke 16, what does it actually say? Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom." Now, it says he looked up and saw what? Abraham. He saw the person. Not a place called Abraham's bosom...he saw the person Abraham! If you have any doubts to this, read the rest of the passage and understand that he was speaking with whom? Abraham! So he saw the person, and he saw Lazarus in his bosom, in other words held to his side. The picture here is that he saw abraham holding and comforting Lazarus. So how on earth can you tell me that from this statement I must accept that this passage is teaching a place under the earth that is named Abraham's bosom, which was a temprory holding cell for righteous people until Christ come emptied them from the place called Abraham's bosom? I ask anybody with common sense to tell me this isn't a huge case of reading your pre-existing thoughts into the text. Indeed, this is your only passage! Everything else you bring is speculation by uninspired authors! If you want any address to the apostles creed, I refer you to John Calvin's address to itin the institutes of the Christian religion. So now, if you wish, debate my interpretation of Luke, or if you'd rather, put forward some other evidence for this elaborate view. But please, lets bring your evidence forward one piece at a time so that we might inspect the quality of the things you say. In Christ, Beja |
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7 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226253 | ||
I guess if you are going to summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition that agrees with the desciption of Hades found in Luke 16:19-31 because they are from uninspired writers any further discussion on the subject is pointless. As for preexisting thoughts I never had any on the subject I viewed Luke 16 as a parable and never looked for any reality to confirm or deny it. I was doing research on Jewish teaching, in particular their view of death and eternity, it was from this research I began to understand their belief on the matter. I was then startled to learn that this newly discovered (by me) Jewish concept of Hades actually paralleled exactly Luke 16:19-31. So call it what you want but don't try to blame it on preexisting thoughts. I can definitively say I had absolutely none on this subject when I entered into this research. Have a great day. |
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8 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226257 | ||
EdB, You state: "I guess if you are going to summarily discount the Talmud and Jewish oral tradition that agrees with the description of Hades found in Luke 16" Response: I most certainly am going to dismiss it, and I feel you ought to give answer to my exegesis of Luke 16 before you just go on acting as if there is a parallel. You said: "...any further discussion on the subject is pointless." Response: Have you no scripture whatsoever then for these things you are teaching to young Christians? In Christ, Beja |
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9 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | EdB | 226264 | ||
Beja I'm sorry I hadn't notice any exegesis of Luke 16. I only saw you making statements about things that neither the Jewish Talmud, Luke 16 nor I said. Hades by both the Jewish Talmud and oral tradition is seen as a spiritual reality not some place under the ground as you suggest. I wonder who is speaking from pre existing thoughts? Also the Jews call the place Abraham's bosom Jesus called it paradise (today you will be with me in paradise)which fits the description of Lazarus seen in Abraham's bosom. How does a man get into the bosom of a another? Unless of course it is the name of a place rather than a description of a physical position of the man. As for teaching young Christians something that is off beat, is it not you who claims the Old Testament Saints entered heaven contrary to Jesus' clear edict that to do so you must pass through Him, and that door the Second or New Covenant was not opened yet? Let us be reasonable and hopefully civil about this, it is obvious to all that neither of us are going to change the others mind on the matter. Let us move on. God's richest blessings to you. |
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10 | where is Christ battling Satan in HELL | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 226266 | ||
EdB, I'm tempted to reply to several things you said in your last post. You always seem to assert your view all over again in the posts where you intend to move on. However, as per your wishes I will let it drop with only one exception that I feel I must correct. You said, "it is obvious to all that neither of us are going to change the others mind." However, I insist that whether it be this day or sometime down the road, I stand more than ready to recant and accept the teaching should you be able to show me that it has sound basis in the word of God. May God bless you as well. In Christ, Beja |
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