Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 223512 | ||
Lightedsteps, You said: "Even though Jesus was without sin, when He was baptized by John, could it have been for the original sin of Adam that is upon the flesh of all men? Being 100 percent Man, and 100 percent God, Jesus had to have had the sin of Adam dwelling in his flesh, because he was born of a woman." and "Jesus had to have sin dwelling in His flesh, otherwise He could not have been tempted as we are, because the temptation would have been of a perfect deity" and "That part of Jesus that was truly flesh, had to be purged of the sin of Adam, in order for it to be said, He was without spot or blemish." Oh no no no no no no no. How you fly in the face of all of scripture! 2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Does not Romans chapter 5, and 1 Cor 15 lay out for us that the second Adam is completely unlike the first adam? And yet they were both fully human. How then did they differ if not in nature to sin? How can we say that we hope to one day be in the likeness of the second Adam if it implies no freedom from our nature of sin!? Do you not also recognize that sin and falleness is not inherent to the human nature!? Was manking created fallen and sinful? Is christ in his ascended humanity fallen and sinful? How then can we say humanity of necessity is sinful? On the contrary it is a quality that is peculiar to those whom have fallen and it is an addition which is foreign to humanity even though its application is universal to all but the son of God. Christ assumed flesh, but he did not assume our sin nature. And since a nature of sin is not inherent to created humanity and only to fallen humanity Christ is able to truely be said to be fully human and yet sinless! Did not all the scriptures point to this? If not what then is the reason for a lamb without blemish? Is the blood of Lambs truely different to God or rather was it pointing forward to the sinlessness of Christ! I beg you to see that all the scriptures that you can possibly point to about the universal plight of fallen sinners is not about what it is inherent to humanity, but rather what they have universally fallen into. Therefore when christ deemed to take upon himself the nature of humanity, he did not also need to take upon himself the stain of sin! In Christ, Beja |
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2 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | lightedsteps | 223531 | ||
Brother Beja Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. How could Jesus be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, unless He actually had those infirmities Himself, and being in all points tempted like as we are, unless He did have the potential to give in to that temptation, which is inherent in man. There had to be the same possibility of sinning in His flesh, as we have in ours, in order for Him to be able to overcome everything for us, because we can't. There is no temptation without the possibility of succumbing to that temptation. To have the sin nature of all men, does not in any way mean that Jesus had sin in Him, or that He did sin, what it means, is that He had the potential for sin, anything less than that potential makes Him less than a man, He had to have the potential to succumb to temptation, otherwise the temptation would be void. We all know of the temptation that Jesus underwent in the wilderness for the forty days after He was baptized. Luke 4:1-13 But all of these temptations were addressed to the Son Of God by Satan. Here then is a temptation that Jesus endured as a man. Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. Mat 26:44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. These are the prayers of a man in the throes of mental anguish, being tormented with the knowledge of the task before Him. As a man, this death He was facing was not something He wanted to do, but He submitted to the will of God. If He had walked away as he definitely wanted to, He would still have been the son of God, but in His walking away safely, He would not have secured "US" to the utmost. He has felt our fear, as He had to feel everything else we think or feel. This could not be accomplished by anything less than being 100 percent human being, which includes all of the frailties of man. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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3 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | Morant61 | 223533 | ||
Greetings Lightedsteps! I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this discussion. I understand the verses you are appealing to, and what you are trying to say about the reality of Christ's humanity. However, you are making a fundamental mistake in assuming that real temptation necessitates a fallen, depraved, human nature. Consider the situation of Adam and Eve. Were they created with a fallen, depraved, human nature? Of course, they were not! Yet, they were tempted by Satan. The fact that temptation was a reality for Christ does not mean that he had a fallen, depraved, human nature. This fallen, depraved, human nature is described in Scripture. Psa 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, None of these passages describe the human nature that Christ possessed. He was without sin in any form - Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. So, Jesus was tempted, but He had no sin. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | lightedsteps | 223575 | ||
Brother Tim In your saying "None of these passages describe the human nature that Christ possessed. He was without sin in any form" Do you mean the human nature that Christ possessed, is categorically different than ours, on the grounds He was without sin in any form? Does not that viewpoint then precipitate the discussion, whether or not we are bearing within "our" flesh the actual sin of Adam, or rather we carry the consequences of that very sin? Jesus was born, lived, died without sin, otherwise He would not be a fit sacrifice for the sins of man. He had life in Himself, "HE IS THE LIFE" Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: (FOR THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY GHOST). 1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. We are born without sin, but we have death abiding in us, which is the consequence of Adams sin, therefore we succumb to sin. 1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. Upon our salvation we are in Christ, we too become born of God, having the seed of God abiding in our fleshly bodies, therefore the verses in 1 John now apply to us also. We have obtained the same life in our earthen vessels, that Jesus had abiding in Him, we have been set free from the bondage in which we were held. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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