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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | ariel levin | 223505 | ||
Good morning Cecilk, Back in the day (and also in the present) Jews perform a ritual called "mikveh". They do this as they move from one place in life to another - as a part of their bar or bat mitzvah, getting married, becoming a parent, changing jobs, changing residences, as well as repenting of one's wrongs and changing the direction of their lives. I see this "baptism" of the Messiah as His mikveh. He walked into the water as a 'carpenter', son of Joseph and Mary, He walked out of the water into His public ministry. John would not have been "baptising" any of the people according to NT procedure, he would have been scooping up the water with his hands and saying a blessing over the repentant person as the water seeped through his fingers back onto the top of the repentant's head (which would be under the water coming up out of the water). As far as what he said, it might have sounded something like "Blessed are you O Lord, Master of the Universe, Who gives us life, and sustains our lives, and Who has brought us to this most sacred moment." |
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2 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 223507 | ||
Hi, ariel... Both as a Jewish convert to Christianity and as a student of the Bible, I do not agree that the mikveh practiced by Jews has any connection with Christian baptism. Any modern sense of connection tends to arise from Christianity's influence on Judaism or as promulgated by American Judaizers. If you would like to have some sort of analogy, you could stand on much more certain Scriptural footing in seeing baptism as the Christian equivalent to Jewish circumcision. Before Christ, a child was circumcised as a sign of familial solidarity in the Old Covenant. After Christ, a child was baptized as a sign of familial solidarity in the New Covenant. In Judaism -- and there is no universal consensus, in theology or in practice -- the mikveh is a matter of achieving a ritualistic, external purity; e.g., women cleansing themselves after giving birth or at the conclusion of their period. In Christianity, baptism is an ordinance from the Lord Jesus Christ, in which the one being baptized is identifying with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (Romans 6:3-7; Colossians 2:11-12). All that we are in Christ -- salvifically, practically, and eternally -- is rooted in this union with Him (1 John 5:11-12). Note, that I do not deny that there are popular teachers, in Judaism and in Evangelicalism, who are attracted by the superficial similarity of these practices. Nevertheless, Jesus had great disdain for the Jewish practice that had been transmogrified by the scribes and the Pharisees. (cf Luke 11:39-40; Mark 7:3-8; Matthew 23:25-28) In Him, Doc |
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3 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | ariel levin | 223514 | ||
Shalom Doc, Circumcision was an external sign on the flesh only and also done without the person's desire for it to be done. For that reason, you should not compare it with baptism, which is done at a person's request. Mikveh was indeed (and still is) performed by a person when they go through teshuvah. That is what John was calling Israel to do, to turn away from their own ways and come back to faith in the God of Israel. Here I'm a little shakey but it seems to me that John could not have been baptising in the Name prior to Messiah coming to him because until that time the "anointing" for His ministry had not yet come on Him permanently, so the "name" would not have had any power, nor had he purged mankind of sins, died and risen again and ascended to the Father. (Where I'm shakey is I'm not sure the people were being baptised in the name at all while He was still here on earth, cos like you said, it's symbolic of becoming One with Him in His death and resurrection?) |
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4 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | DocTrinsograce | 223516 | ||
Dear ariel, See the following chapter entitled: "The reasons why Christian Baptism is not founded on, and taken from, the pretended Jewish Baptism of Israelites and proselytes" by John Gill. http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Practical_Divinity/Book_5/book5_05.htm Study takes effort. I apologize, but I do not have the time to predigest Gill. Suffice it to say that his evaluation of the subject stands the test of time by orthodox Christianity. Certainly, at least, in reformed orthodoxy. In Him, Doc |
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5 | Did John really baptise Jesus?? | Bible general Archive 4 | ariel levin | 223517 | ||
Doc, Somewhere along the way we lost communication. I never said that mikveh and baptism are the same. I agree that baptism is symbolic of seeing ourselves in Messiah's death, burial, resurrection, and for that reason I believe that the "baptism" John was doing was a mikveh associated with teshuvah - changing one's direction, way of living, thinking. We're talking about a Jew doing a Jewish ritual to/with Jews. How could he have baptised into something that hadn't happened yet? I simply stated that the mikveh wasn't JUST for repentance of sins. It could have been done for Messiah as He was leaving one lifestyle behind (that of son, brother and carpenter) for another (His public ministry), Just because He was among a group of people who were turning back to God doens't mean that that has to be the reason He was there. |
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