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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How should we take the Bible? | Bible general Archive 2 | jlhetrick | 154938 | ||
Hello Doc, Where are you coming from with this statement? You wrote: "We spend more time trying to figure out how to obey as little as possible and have our own way as much as possible. We even read the Scriptures -- when we bother to read them at all -- with an attitude of how much is in it for me, and what is the least I have to do. If we are honest, everyone of us struggles with this." It saddens me to read this. You used the "pronoun" WE but I hope you were not referring to yourself and/or Christians. What you described here is not the character or the way of a true converted person. Sure "our" sin nature still exists and sure many, and even perhapse all, of the characteristics you described can and do exists in every christian, but hoepfully as the exception rather than the rule. I'm sorry but I just don't see how this broad statement about Christians (as it appears you are referring to Christians) as being helpful in answering Diomede's question. Your numberes list was helpful and thanks for that. Jeff |
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2 | How should we take the Bible? | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 154954 | ||
Hi, Jeff... I guess if Paul, at the end of his life, could call himself "the chief of sinners" (1 Tim 1:15), then perhaps my statement -- to which you objected -- is far too mild. On the other hand, if you and all of those professing to be believers around you are diligently studying the Word, growing in grace, learning to love Christ more, and look more like Christ, without faltering or flagging, then I would happily attend your church! But if I did, I'd certainly lower your average! :-) In Him, Doc PS Whenever I think I'm doing well, I read the following paper by Jonathan Edwards. It puts things back into perspective -- and puts my focus back on God. I am utterly, completely, and entirely dependent on God, moment by moment, to live a life pleasing to Him. http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/JE-justice.htm |
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3 | How should we take the Bible? | Bible general Archive 2 | jlhetrick | 154961 | ||
Come on Doc, you are one of the more learned bible students on this forum. We both know that Paul was in no way categorizing himself along with those he wrote about in the verses I pointed out (Romans 1:18-32). Absolutely not. When you study the life and ministry of Paul you will (and you Doc have) find that Paul was a saved sinner. He was a Christian. He was also still human and as such continued to be a sinner (as you, me, and those "professing believers" around me are). Romans 7:14-20 for example I think you missed my point altogether. (and I admitted in my earlier post to Mark that I may very well have missed your point). So let me try again. I am not trying to be contentious or argumentative here. I had true concern for what you wrote regarding Christians and their "intentional" avoidance of seeking God's truth and creating ways of not adhering to the word of God and not being obedient save perhaps on a very superficial level (again as I understood your post). To my understanding and belief, such would not be true Christians, not truly converted and changed by the Lord. Therefore, I would object to the "we" with the inclusion of Christians implied or stated. But you did not attempt to redirect my understanding of your comments so I must assume that I interpreted them correctly. So, in this latest post you minimize your labeling to "faltering or flagging", far different descriptions than "spending most of our time trying to figure out how to obey as little as possible..." and "how much is in it for me, and what is the least I have to do." Doc, this is not a sufficient description of a true Christian at all. Yes, this is a far different description of how a truly converted person approaches the Lord and His word. The difference in myself, Paul, and I suspect you and every other true believer, is that we are convicted by God when we sin, resulting in true feelings of guilt and sorrow followed by repentance and forgiveness. We are so grateful for His mercy and the grace He has shown in saving us that, in spite of "faltering or flagging" we strive to do better and continually die to self as we are made more and more like Jesus Christ. I believe that this is a more accurate representation of the approach a true Christian takes toward his/her savior and the word of God. And as for "lowering the average" at my church, I don't think so. Because I disagree with a statement you made doesn't mean that I don't respect and appreciate your knowledge; as I have said in other posts, I have learned a lot from you. But, in truth I believe you meant this comment as an insult. Jeff |
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4 | How should we take the Bible? | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 154963 | ||
Dear Jeff, Nope... no insult intended. I guess you aren't one of my regular readers. That's okay, I tend to put folks to sleep! :-) I also guess you didn't read Jonathan Edwards' paper. Hard reading, even under the best of circumstances, so I understand. In Him, Doc "Just as the sinner's despair of any hope from himself is the first prerequisite of a sound conversion, so the loss of all confidence in himself is the first essential in the believer's growth in grace." --A.W. Pink "Believers are plainly taught to use active personal exertion, and are addressed as responsible for doing energetically what Christ would have them do, and are not told to 'yield themselves' up as passive agents and sit still, but to arise and work. A holy violence, a conflict, a warfare, a fight, a soldier's life, a wrestling, are spoken of as characteristic of the true Christian." --Bishop J. C. Ryle "When I speak of growth in grace, I do not for a moment mean that a believer's interest in Christ can grow. I do not mean that he can grow in safety, acceptance with God or security. I do not mean that he can ever be more justified, more pardoned, more forgiven, more at peace with God, than he is the first moment he believes. I hold firmly that the justification of a believer is a finished, perfect and complete work; and that the weakest saint, though he may not know and feel it, is as completely justified as the strongest. I hold firmly that our election, calling, and standing in Christ admit of no degrees, increase or diminution....I would go to the stake, God helping me, for the glorious truth, that in the matter of justification before God every believer is complete in Christ (Col. 2:10) ... "... When I speak of a man growing in grace, I mean simply this -- that his sense of sin is becoming deeper, his faith stronger, his hope brighter, his love more extensive, his spiritual-mindedness more marked. He feels more of the power of godliness in his own heart. He manifests more of it in his life. He is going on from strength to strength, from faith to faith, and from grace to grace ..." --Bishop J. C. Ryle |
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5 | How should we take the Bible? | Bible general Archive 2 | jlhetrick | 154965 | ||
OK, thanks Jeff |
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