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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New Wine vs. Fermented | Bible general Archive 2 | MJH | 153490 | ||
Jesus drank fermented wine as did every Jew of his day (as well as their children) during the Passover. Only those taking a Nazarite Vow would abstain from fermented wine or anything from the grape vine for a period of time (about 3 months usually). Or in the case of Samson, for life. Some Pastors teach that Jesus and the first Christians did not drink fermented wine in order to justify their church's "rule" to not drink at all, but these arguments are not historically accurate. If a church chooses to make a "rule" to abstain from alcohol of any kind, that is fine. Elders can add certain rules or yokes for their congregations (binding and losing), and their congregations should abide by them if they attach themselves to that community of believers, but to claim something about Jesus and the disciples that is patently false to justify it is wrong. MJH Scripture: Num 6:3; Luke 1:15 (why say John the Baptist can not drink "strong drink" if no one did?); John 2; 1 Cor 11:21; etc... |
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2 | New Wine vs. Fermented | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 153493 | ||
Hi, MJH... Dr. Bill Jones stated once that the wine of Bible times was usually mingled (i.e., mixed with water). He said that the alcoholic content was such that it would effect the bladder more quickly than it would cause inebriation. He asserted that the alcohol content was much less than what it is in a bottle of the typical modern equivalent. I don't know where Jones got his information. Clearly, however, we aren't talking about the kind of alcohol content of distilled spirits! Distillation wasn't invented until quite a few centuries later, unless one counts the "Mongolian still" which requires pretty chilly weather. Nevertheless, it brings up the question about the difference between wine, new wine, and strong drink in Scripture. Do you have any details about the distinctions? Thank you for your contributions to the forum, MJH! In Him, Doc PS I attended a Presbyterian church for some time. They used fermented wine and encouraged its use. However, they always made grape juice available for those who wished to abstain for "conscience sake." I always appreciated that. Frankly, the odor of the fermented wine always reminded me of a past that I'd just as soon forget! PSS Have you ever noticed that elders are to be "not given to wine" (1 Tim 3:3, Titus 1:7), whereas deacons and aged women are to be "not given to MUCH wine" (1 Tim 3:8, Titus 2:3)? |
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3 | New Wine vs. Fermented | Bible general Archive 2 | MJH | 153498 | ||
Hello again Doc, According to my favorite Archeology book, "Life in Biblical Israel" by Philip King, and Lowrence Stager, wine was fermented and "wine culture was well developed in the period of the Neo-Assyrian Empire during the first half of the first millennium B.C." Also, "The pomace of the grape was 'distilled' into grappa, a brandy. The simple technology for its production was available in the Bronze Age...20 to 60 percent alcoholic content." Hos. 4:11 "Wine (yayin) and new wine (tiros) take away the understanding." Isa 5:11 Isaiah denounces those "who rise early in the morning in pursuit of strong wine(sekar) who linger in the evening to be inflamed by wine (yayin)." See also, "The Origins and Ancient History of Wine", by Patrick McGovern New Wine: (tiros) is “newly fermented wine, or simply wine”. (asis) is “juice”. (Yayin) is simply “wine.” There are nine words in the Hebrew text for wine, but not necessarily meaning a different kind of wine, but rather distinguishing its origin. Given this understanding, “New Wine” was still fermented, and since there is a Hebrew word for “Juice,” I doubt that TIROS would mean juice as well. I got most of this information from the book listed at the top. I never knew this morning that I was going to delve so deeply into the Hebrew and Archeology of wine….. It’s always good to discuss things with you, Doc! MJH |
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4 | New Wine vs. Fermented | Bible general Archive 2 | DocTrinsograce | 153499 | ||
Hi, MJH... Thank you for the information! Very interesting! I don't mean to argue... but do King and Stager give a source for their information on the distillation process in the Bronze Age? As early as 800 BC, according to the net, a simplified method existed in China and India. All the sources say that such technology was not used by the Greeks or Romans. However, the Babylonians did have a distillation technique, but they didn't use it to make stuff to drink. I've checked about a half dozen web sites, they all give the same story. On the other hand, King and Stager also appear to know what they are talking about. Hmmm... Any idea? In Him, Doc |
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