Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146100 | ||
Hello Merv, 1) "clean/unclean - Listen I can only give you what the bible says." So you say, yet you consistently add to the text. "According to your logic mankind ate unclean animals after the flood then God gave them law to only eat unclean during the period Israel and yet again God changes back to we can eat unclean meat again." Exactly. "Do not use Gen.9:3 unless you use whole text. God claried it by saying 'as I have given you the green herb'." You are correct in this. My error, but I stand behind my comments. "How come you you never comment on the scriptural evidence against eating unclean meat." Because there isn't any. "Just as I said about Abraham having knowledge of God's commandments (Gen. 25:5) prior to Sinai why is it so hard to think that Noah was not instructed as to what not to eat prior to the Mosaic law." Again you are defining words based on knowledge not yet given. Abraham believed what God commanded of him---nothing more. If Abraham did indeed have knowledge of the Law, then where is the tabernacle and furnishings? Who was the high priest? How could they keep the feasts they had never heard of yet? If abraham failed in any of these, he was guilty. "I believe even Cain/Abel knew what was clean and unclean that is why Abel gave the right sacrifice to God." I agree, that's why commented as I did. 2) "But with Christianity come the Perfect laws of God for a better life an Holy life." Which laws? The law of Moses? No. Why was the Law given? Gal 3:23-26 (ESV) Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. "The diet was in place ever since mankind was given meat to eat by God." Only if you read into the text what is not there. "Again, can you show me any reference at all to Jesus or His disciples eating a unclean piece of meat." Jesus would not have since he came to fulfill the Law (Matt 5:17). I'm surprised you mentioned him. 3) "The reason God chose Abraham...was because Abraham was a man of God. Abraham loved God and obeyed Him that is why Abraham was given a covenant with God because He showed obedience to the command of God to sacrifice His son Isaac." Chapter and verse friend. Where does it say that Abraham was a man of God when called? The covenant was established well before Isaac was offered as a sacrifice (Gen 12:1-3; 15:1-21). "If the gentiles kept the coventant they would have the same promise of eternity with God." Completely incorrect. Nobody could keep the covenant. That is the issue. The righteous live by faith (Hab 2:4; Heb 11:6). It was belief in the covenant giver that one had life. Steve |
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2 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 146109 | ||
Steve: continued .. I was reading my last note to you and I mistyped something. You say God went from "eat everything" - before Sinai to "eat only clean meat" during the Israel period to "eat everything again" after Jesus. Makes no sense. Are stomachs are the same from Adam to now !! 1) If you agree Cain and Abel knew difference between clean/unclean then explain why God could not have unclean sacrifices. If it does not matter for our bodies then why does God make such a deal about clean sacrifices ?? 2) No no "new" laws were given except "love thy neighbor" but even that was mentioned in Leviticus. Jesus came to magnify the law. Now not written on stone but on the heart. If we lust we commit adultery ... 10 comm. with stand for ever and ever. They are the laws which point out out sin. The atonement laws (ceremonial) were "done away with" or "nailed to the cross" by Jesus because He was the Lamb who would come to take away the sin of the world. But sin still abounds in the world (lusts of the flesh) so we need the law which is written in our heart to help us recognize temptation and flee from it. Gal. 3 - well everything has to be taken in context. In the OT the 10 comm. pointed out there sins and the need for atonement. Through "faith" in the the shedding of clean animal blood and recognizing that a Saviour would come to shed His blood for their sins. Their faith in that system of laws atoned for their sins. We no longer need that system. We no longer need to be led in faith that He has come - because He has died and atoned for our sins. Now we just have faith and belied that He loved us so much that He did indeed die and was resurected meaning we too will be resurected when He returns. Our faith and love towards God is hsown to Him by faithful obedience to His law NOT the Jewish "600" laws which made them "work" for salvation !! Diet - do not think I am misconstruing anything - I believe it is the only logical conclusiion. You still have not commented on the comment about Peter knowing everything was clean before the vision ?? So Jesus fulfilled the law but now we are not under the law - so I am safe to say we can now kill and still enter heaven !! 3) Ya my fault - i was getting way ahead of myself. Right - God called Abram out of his country. I assume He did this to get Abram away from sin so God could raise up a Godly nation through Abram. Don't know where I thought it said Abram was a man of God but I look at it this way - God saved Noah because (Gen. 6:8) "he found grace in the eyes of the Lord". I have to figure there was a reason why God could trust Abram to make His covenant with him ?? God knows all !! Abram proved his loyalty with obeying God. And yes the covenant was given as soon as he told Abram to come out of his country. But it must have taken alot of faith for Abram to do this !! But these errors above do not change that the covenant was given to Abraham prior to Sinai. Hebrews 8 -- Now I do not believe I am incorrect. The coventant and grace was available to all mankind. Grace is just the fact that God will actually allow us to repent of out sins and have eternal life. The promise of His covenant is that we who believe and have faith and show love to God through obedience will not die as a punishment for sin but have eternal life. Just in the OT they had to not only not sin but if they did sin they had to atone for their sins through faith in the shedding of the blood of bulls and goats (recognizing that a coming Messiah would come to pay the ultimate price for sin throught His death - since the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin) Only Christ could atone for out sin. When I said keep the covenant I meant being obedient to God through faith - if they sinned they must do the sacrifices in faith. But that fact is as you agree that gentiles were offered the covenant. So to say that gentiles do not know the diet and laws of God is just not right. When they believed in Jesus as Saviour they would know that there life had to change according to how God wants us to be the Lightof the World. Merv |
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3 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146134 | ||
Hello Merv, "Makes no sense. Our stomachs are the same from Adam to now !!" By the same logic, we could not eat meat at all. That can't be the reason. "If you agree Cain and Abel knew difference between clean/unclean then explain why God could not have unclean sacrifices." I can't. I don't know the criteria until I read the Mosaic law which Cain/Abel did not have. "Their faith in that system of laws atoned for their sins." No! Faith in God is what atones for sin (Gen 15:6). Faith in a system is righteousness based on works. Concerning Peter, he knew exactly what things were clean and unclean both in regard to diet and Gentile interaction. But as I said, he lived as a Gentile amongst the Gentiles, not as a Jew amongst the Gentiles. "And yes the covenant was given as soon as he told Abram to come out of his country. But it must have taken alot of faith for Abram to do this !!" Amen! "But these errors above do not change that the covenant was given to Abraham prior to Sinai." Yes, the covenant of promised based on faith was given. "When [Gentiles] believed in Jesus as Saviour they would know that there life had to change according to how God wants us to be the Light of the World." I agree, the question is, "In what way does it change?" Steve |
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4 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 146396 | ||
Yes it the reason. the life expectancy dropped significantly after the flood. Two reasons - eating meat and the evironmental changes from flood !! You cannot avoid the obvious - Abel sacrificed a lamb not a piglet !!!!! He knew the requirement of God. Of course I am not saying they had faith in the works of sacrifices but they had faith in God who told them to sacrifice. Do you really think they enjoyed killed one of there precious little lambs that they raised and fed -- of course not. But the symbolism they understood !!! God would have to sacrifice His own Son for their sin. They did not want to sin so they would not have to kill a little lamb. They understood the penalty that had to happen for there sin. How much more should we not feel like sinning to avoid crucifying out Lord ! We might as well forget the Peter vision !! YOu have no scriptural evidence to back up Peter now accepting to eat unclean meat !!! WHERE in the bible does he say it or does he eat it --- NOWHERE. Remember the vision was indeed a VISION. Symbolic reference was made to God saying everything is clean to wake up Peter's brain to understand that God was not cleansing the unclean animals (because just a Peter thought - it could not be - that is why he disagreed with God's command) BUT rather God was showing Peter that all mankind is clean before GOD and should be looked upon that way by the Jews so that the gospel can be preached. I cannot make this any more clear. Actually if we want to be specific - God promised a way out of sin way back in the garden. God predicted to the devil that one would come and bruise his head (Gen.3:15) -- The plan for salvation was put in place !!! Gentiles: In what way does there life have to change. --- according to God's commands !!! We must search out heart to see if we are following the traditions of man or the doctrines of the gospel. Merv |
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5 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146430 | ||
Hello Merv, By your reasoning then, we should all convert to vegeterian in order to serve the Lord longer. You go first. I have never seen a law before that given by Moses where a sacrifice was required to atone for sin. Could you give me chapter and verse on that please, since you seem to know it. What I do see is that sacrifices were given for both sin and worship. But again, I don't see a law. No verse says that Peter sat down and had pork for dinner. True enough. But when a fellow apostle says you're living like a Gentile (he doesn't say Gentile Christian), then I'm convinced because a typical Gentile eats unclean meat. And what were the Gentiles commanded to do? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing more was required. Steve |
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6 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147525 | ||
Steve: "nothing more was required" -- Jesus forgave the adulteress woman - yes - Humm - did Jesus not also say "go and sin no more".. Is this not something God "required". 1 John 5:2 and 1 John 2:6 and Math. 19:17 I guess these verse mean something other than a "requirement" by God to obey His commandments. Repenting is one thing but the evidence of a repentant heart is to "do" what God "requires". Very plain and clear !!!! BUT DONE IN LOVE !!!!! NOT LEGALISM !!!! Law cannot "save" only Jesus's blood saves. Keeping law shows our "love for God" and not love for the flesh. Yes, I think being a vegetarian is a good idea - considering what I have leanned from scripture !! Does not mean we cannot eat clean meat but God is pretty clear how these clean animals were to be killed and free from blood. Not many of us raise our own animals to be able to ensure they are killed and clean properly. Most Christians do not even understand the reason to why God did not want us to eat blood - cause blood was used to atone for sins !!! Blood represented life !!! Yes you are right no specific laws stated to sacrifice for sins. Also no specific law stated to keep law prior to exit from Egypt. But did every conversation get recorded in the OT. No. But God clearly without refute created a 7th day, rested on it, and sanctified it. Abel shed blood through the little lamb - Cain did not. Only through shedding of blood is the remission of sin. Again the actual blood of the lamb di not atone for Abel's sins but the faith that His son was coming to fulfill the shadow of that little lamb was what made Abel righteous. Do you think they were sheeding lambs blood cause God liked the sight of killing innocent lambs and seeing there blood flow over the alter. Silence does not justify - avoiding the obvious. No command given to worship or keep a "new"day but the majority insist the "new" day of worship and rest is the 1st day. You cannot assume Peter ate unclean meat. He did not do it when God specifically commanded him do to so. Why would he be eating it with Gentiles if he would not even do it when God commanded him to eat it in the vision. Logic !! Merv |
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7 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 147546 | ||
Hello Merv, We are not discussing the woman taken in adultery. Please stay on topic. "Repenting is one thing but the evidence of a repentant heart is to 'do' what God 'requires'. Very plain and clear !!!!" Amen. Again you argue from what is not written. Perhaps if you stayed with what is clearly written, you might learn. Steve |
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8 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147610 | ||
Steve: Adultery and repentance have everything to refute your arguement that God does not require obedience. Obedience is a reflection of our love. True repentance brings a heart in allignment with God and his law a principles to live a health, long life for Him. Short but sweet !! Merv |
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9 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 147625 | ||
Hello Merv, You refuse to listen to sound doctrine. You refuse to stay on topic. I am closing this debate. Steve |
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