Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146070 | ||
Hello Merv, 1) The diet of God was not given to Noah. No reason is given for God calling animals clean and unclean until we get to the Law. There are no dietary restrictions mentioned. The Gentile Christians would NOT be eating according to the teaching of the OT. In Acts 15 the letter sent to Gentile believers only mentions food offered to idols and things strangled. There is no mention of clean and unclean. And we cannot assume that the Gentiles were already eating according to the Law, because the text never tells us. If being "under the law" means to be guilty of it, then the Lord Jesus is condemned (Gal 4:4) and cannot be my savior. Are you saying that Gentiles should have been circumcised? Let me know if I misunderstood your statement. 2) Chapter and verse friend. If God gave a law concerning eating with unwashed hands, you would be able to share it. If God gave a law to Noah concerning eating clean and unclean, you would be able to share it. What did God tell Noah? Gen 9:3-4 (ESV) Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. Nothing here about clean and unclean that I can see. Steve |
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2 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 146089 | ||
Het Steve: I wrote a lengthy response to your questions but then found out the limit is 5000 characters. I had to delete 1500 characters. I will try to remember what I said. Regarding the diet and Noah. Did you know that Cain commited sin in murdering Abel. Cannot be sin without law. There is no scripture about a stated law about murder. But Cain was punished for it. Sin is the transgression of the law. In Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God's commandments. But wait a second the law was not "given" until Sinai. Something is very inconsistent with the arguement that the law only appears at Sinai when we have scriptural evidence to refute it. Something to think about. Definitely not, I am not saying Gentiles should have been circumcised but many of the Jewish Christians thought they should. That is why Peter was being condemned by Paul. They were being hypocrites - treating them one way when no Christian Jews were around. Jewish Christians (some) were still struggling with their upbringing that Gentiles were somehow different than them in the eyes of God. But amazingly many Christians (Gentiles like myself) still follow the healthy principal of circumcision. Lev. 11,12,13 have alot to say about God wanting His people to be clean (washing laws). Your quoting of Gen. 9:3-4 is the declaration of God to eat clean meat only. Just as not every plant was good to eat (some poisonous) the same is true about animals. Why do you think God said in Gen 7:2 about clean or unclean animals. God wanted clean sacrifices and want our bodies to only eat clean food. Ever wonder why throughout the bible the lamb is a picture of very clean and unblemished. These animals only ate good things (vegetation) not dead carcases of animals. I have had this discussion with a good friend and he put forth the arguement that many animals are raised on different diets now. That does not changed the fact that the blood line of the animal is defiled. Isaiah 65:4 says swine is an abomination or defiled or destestable. We are not to defile our body. This is very obvious to me but man does not want to be told what we can or can't eat. Just like Adam and Eve. The funny thing is even medical science today will tell us that the best diet is the original diet of God and if we eat meat the clean meats are the best for us to eat. It us amazing how we can be brought up to follow the tradition of man and not the doctrine of Truth from God. God does not want to keep us form the good things of life but want the best for us because He created us. Steve, I do not expect you to agree with me but I will say that it took me sometime to figure this out a realize that the "Chruch" has changed the Truth of God. Looking forward to more feedback, Merv |
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3 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146093 | ||
Hello Merv, That word limit is annoying when you first get it. :-( And worse when you forget it later. Cain - an interesting situation there. There proper response (as we learn later) was execution either by Adam or one of his offspring. But that's not the judgement given! In fact, God ensures that he will not be killed by another's hand. So while there was a sin committed, there was no law broken because one had not been given yet. So God dealt with it personally. Abraham - When I use Law (capitalized) I mean the Mosaic Law given at Sinai. God gave commands before the Law was given. 2) Lev 11-13 says things about washing, but they are for very specific reasons and none of them are washing hands before a meal. 3) "Your quoting of Gen. 9:3-4 is the declaration of God to eat clean meat only." No it's not. You are adding "clean" to the text. Stick with the text. About the poisonous plants, what had God commanded? Gen 1:29 (ESV) And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food." How many poisonous plants yield seed? How many trees with seed in its fruit are poisonous? I honestly don't know, but I would be inclined to believe there aren't any. Steve |
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4 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 146099 | ||
Ya Steve: You got that right. But the limit does keep the messages short and hopefully to the point. 1) Cain's sin - Interesting point you make about God dealing with it personally. I do agree, in a way, but I would characterize it as individually he pointed out His law to people who would follow it. Since Cain and Abel were the first offspring of Adam and Eve then I would "assume" that they knew God's law. Even you said "so while there was sin committed". 1 John 3:4 - "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law" Using your own statement coupled with scripture absolutely means there was law. We know "sin" entered the world through Adam. Therefore he disobeyed God's law. The judgement that God gives is up to Him in the OT. When David committed adultery and murder - he was not killed. But clearly God had in different circumstances issed death for sin. Ok if you agree that God gave commands (law) before Sinai then why are we argueing over whether or not Cain knew it was wrong to kill. He absolutely must have know or he would not have been punished for it. If Adam/Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of Life before God told them not to - would there still be sin in the world. God does not work that way. God is Truthful - Upfront - Honest - Loving ---- God always warns His loving creatures of the consequences of sin. He does this through law. Rom. 3:31 "Do we make void the law through faith ? GOD FORBID: YEA WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." The law is perfect Ps.19:7 and willlast for ever and ever Ps.111:7,8. 2) Lev. - washing - I totally agree (wow) !! Yes the washing for meals was added due to the law being made a burden by the scibes. God's law was meant for our benefit out of law not to be a burden. The Jews considered Gentiles unclean - that was the whole point to Peter's vision. 3) Well lets just agree to disagree on this point ! I definetely see that God is saying I give you ALL animals to eat just like I gave you the plants to eat for food. But of course it is not stated anywhere in Genesis but clearly they could not eat every plant or berry because some will kill you and are not good for your body. So I see your point but again you are not dealing with many reference to unclean being very detestable to God. Merv |
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5 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 146128 | ||
Hello Merv, 1) I should have added this verse to back my reasoning: Rom 5:13 (ESV) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Because God had not yet given the commandment about murder Cain, though guilty of sin, it could not be counted against Cain. It had to be dealt with differently. 2) Total agreement. :-D 3) I haven't dealt with unclean being detestable to God because that is not stated until the Mosaic law. As background, I follow an historical, grammatical approach to Scripture. Basically, I look at what was said, when it was said, where it is in relation to other things being said, etc. This is why I argue so strongly that one cannot take the Mosaic law and superimpose it on anyone in Genesis. You have to look at what God revealed to his people at the moment or prior. Steve |
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6 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 146131 | ||
Steve: Still you must explain Gen 26:5 if you argue there was not law before Moses. Another thing is the Jesusalem council did not mention the 10 comm. so gentiles are not obligated to keep them. Cain did evil, the people of Sodom were wicked (sexual immorality) and people of Noah's time were wicked. How is a God to judge them wicked without a standard. I still think your rational for debate is just to suit your position Merv |
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7 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | kalos | 146138 | ||
Gentiles not to keep 10 commandments? Merv: You write: "...the Jesusalem council did not mention the 10 comm. so gentiles are not obligated to keep them." There are 613 laws in the Torah (Pentateuch). As I understand it, not all of the 613 apply to all people in all times and places. For example, there are laws that apply only to women. Some apply only to the priests. Obviously civil laws applied to the people of Israel when they were in the land of Israel, from the time of Moses until 70 A.D. Does the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments still apply? All but one of them are repeated in the New Testament. Jesus places much emphasis on them. Paul in his writings speaks of them, as does James in his. If it is true that Gentiles are not obligated to keep the 10 commandments, then we would be "free" to commit adultery, lie, steal, murder, etc. Without the Law people would be either in idolatry or doing things that harm others. Again, I am not saying that we must keep the Law as a means of being saved. I've never said that. According to the Bible, no one was ever saved by keeping the Law. "The just shall live by faith." He who finds life will find it by trusting. matt517 |
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8 | Hank - Diet ??? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147544 | ||
Matt: Yes we are not saved by the law but we are clearly instructed to keep the law by Jesus. Math. 19:17 Law does not save but does show our love for God ! Merv |
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