Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 145962 | ||
Hank: This is in reponse to your note regarding my statements on paganized Christianity. I am aware that this is a touchy subject but I would first say that I grew up in a Free Methodist Church and attended a Methodist college. Many of my relatives are Baptist. I respect the opinions of all but in the case of false doctrine I think people need to determine for themself if Truth is being taught within our Chruches. I have been studying these controversial issues and I believe the scriptures are clear about the doctrines I said were altered by man. |
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2 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | Hank | 145965 | ||
swerv ::: Let's narrow this thing down. Pick one doctrine, any doctrine, which you see as having been corrupted by orthodox Christian teaching, and show clearly with scriptural references taken in context wherein orthodox Christian teaching has altered or corrupted it. --Hank | ||||||
3 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 145967 | ||
Hank - prophecy. Do you understand Daniel 9:27 is talking about Christ or antichrist. If Christ then the tribulation/rapture theory (Left Behind Series)would be a false doctrine. I believe the "he" is Christ in which fulfills the final (70th week) of Daniel 9 - the 70 week prophecy from God. Also, with Daniel 9:27 talking about Christ it also further supports that the "sacrifice and offerings" were taken away at the cross and not the 10 commandments which means the Sabbath (7th day - Saturday) is the day God made Holy in the very beginning before sin existed and which God expects us to follow out of obedience and love for Him. The "sacrifices and offerings" were a shaddow of things to come but the Sabbath was created by God prior to any fallen state of man. The Sabbath was apart of the perfect creation of God and was made for man as the NT tells us. Look forward to your response - Hank |
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4 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 147252 | ||
Merv Let me ask you a question what is keeping the Sabbath? To make it easy for you let me give you a definition. SABBATH The day of rest, considered holy to God by His rest on the seventh day after creation and viewed as a sign of the covenant relation between God and His people and of the eternal rest He has promised them. Old Testament The word sabbath comes from the Hebrew shabbat, meaning “to cease” or “desist.” The primary meaning is that of cessation from all work. —Holman Bible Dictionary Let us go to scripture. Exodus 16:23 (NASB) 23 then he said to them, "This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning." Exodus 16:25 (NASB) 25 Moses said, "Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. Exodus 16:26 (NASB) 26 "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none." Exodus 20:8 (NASB) 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exodus 20:10 (NASB) 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. Exodus 20:11 (NASB) 11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 23:10 (NASB) 10 "You shall sow your land for six years and gather in its yield, Exodus 31:12 (NASB) 12 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, Exodus 31:14 (NASB) 14 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 35:3 (NASB) 3 "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day." Leviticus 16:31 (NASB) 31 "It is to be a sabbath of solemn rest for you, that you may humble your souls; it is a permanent statute. Leviticus 16:31 (NASB) 31 "It is to be a sabbath of solemn rest for you, that you may humble your souls; it is a permanent statute. Leviticus 23:3 (NASB) 3 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings. In all of this do you see any indication of the activities we consider keeping the Sabbath. No where does it mention going to a synagogue, church, or place to worship. In fact it says everyone is to stay home. The Jews in their usual desire of economy actually corrupted the Sabbath by combining their required worship into this day. The Sabbath was a day of rest, God expected worship all the other 6 days. When the Jews brought charges against Jesus what were they? They were because He did in their eye work, a violation of Sabbath. Jesus said I’m the Lord of the Sabbath. Man no longer needed a day of rest because Shiloh the rest giver had come. What Christian do is set aside a day of worship, that day is not the Sabbath, your right the Sabbath is, was and will always be the 7th day. However Jesus fulfilled it. What Sunday is the Christian day of worship of celebration. By attempting to make Christian worship on either day as keeping the Sabbath is making the same mistake the Jews did when they decided to worship in the synagogues on the Sabbath. The very nature of it violates God’s mandates for the Sabbath. To keep the Sabbath you must refrain from all work. Driving a car to church is work. Getting the kids ready for church is work. Preaching is work. Ushering is work. Teaching Church school is work. Opening the doors of the church is work. Playing the organ/piano is work. In fact the Jews said tying or untying a knot was work so if you tied your shoes on the Sabbath you also broke the Sabbath. EdB |
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5 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147414 | ||
Ed: Lev. 23:3 which you quote "holy convocation" - means to gather together. Just like Jesus and Paul did as their custom was !!! Yes, Jews fell away from the intention of the Sabbath which was made by God as part of the perfect creation process "prior" to sin entering the world. The Sabbath was perfect in its creation because it was to give 24 hours of time out the week for the people to go about worshiping God and not worry about their daily routine. Clearly you would agree that man cannot worship God if the day is filled with "work" to support oneself and family as God commands. 6 days you "shall" work. Meaning God fully expects use to live for Him every day - while we work and do routine activities - but on the Sabbath since we are commanded to do not work WE ALL then have the time to gather together to worship without the pressures of job schedule and routine schedule. This has got to be clearly seen to understand the purpose of not working. Now being said the Sabbath was made for man (not just Jew)NOT man for the Sabbath. It was made for a blessing of rest, worship and an opportunity to "do good on the Sabbath" as Jesus said to the Pharisees. Sabbath was made from the beginning. I personally believe Abraham was keeping the Sabbath - although we have no direct statement of evidence in the scripture. But we do have Gen. 26:5. Can you tell me what commandments Abraham was keeping. Remember it does not say what they are. But certainly said he kept commandments. Whe it said Jesus "fulfilled the law" - this means he kept the law. Since we did not keep the law (or sinned) then the only atonement possible is for Jesus to live a perfect sinless life but still be put to death - although He did not deserve it like we do. Since He did die He took out place. Just as John 15:10 says - Jesus did not sin -- Why -- because He kept His father's commandments. This is fulfilling the law. Saying We as Man no longer need rest is like saying the principle of not resting the fields every 7th year should not still be followed. We need rest every week from our regular activites. God gave it as a blessing !!!! Heb. 4 clearly says "There remains a Sabbath rest". Clearly you do not understand "work" the priests in the OT had to work in the service. Jesus performed miracles on the Sabbath and called it doing "good". Doing God's work on the Sabbath is not work but loving God. You can go to any pastor out there and they will say WE as Christians must keep a day of rest. Unfortunately it is the 1st day they consider the Sabbath. Look forward to your reply ! Merv |
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6 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 147419 | ||
Hello Merv, "God gave it as a blessing !!!! Heb. 4 clearly says 'There remains a Sabbath rest'." Yes, and if you read the context, it says nothing about a day of the week. The whole point of Heb. 4 is the rest we have in Christ. Steve |
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7 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147530 | ||
Yes Steve: it has a paralell meaning of rest in Christ. Ok so why do we keep a "day" of rest at all - the 1st day. No pastor will tell you - "we do not need a day to rest and focus our activities on Jesus and fellowship". You cannot hav it both ways. Heb.4:7 clearly discussed the 7th day. What do you mean it does not mention a day of the week. Do you see my concern: People will argue there is no more Sabbath (7th) based on the "rest in Christ" we have now. But then they go and keep a "day of rest" - 1st day but call it a new "sabbath" or changed sabbath. If we have rest in Christ as many argue from Heb. 4 then why keep a day !!!! Where is the logic Merv |
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8 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 147549 | ||
Hello Merv, I never said that we shouldn't rest from our daily labors. My point is that it isn't a command. Steve |
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9 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147619 | ||
Wow - it is amazing to here some comments. Did Jesus not teach that Jews are no better than Gentiles - YES !!! How are laws (supposedly only given to Jews but actually Isaiah refutes this as I have already shown) not good also for Gentiles. I know you say "we should rest from our labours" - and I do agree. But explain what we would be doing on this day. Could it be worshiping God and thanking Him for this beautiful world in which we can rest and enjoy the beauty and relaxing scenery. I do not know how you can say the 4th commandment is not a command by God. And by the way, When the rich young rules came to Jesus to ask Him about the law - Jesus clearly repeated commands of the 10 commandments. But again Steve we can argue this to the death but scipture cannot give two answers because God is a consistent and clear God. Either the Sabbath can be any day of the week, no day of the week, the 7th or the 1st. I tend to rely on consistency and scriptural evidence that clearly says it was created in the beginning - God clearly punished by death for not keeping it. Pretty stong support to me that I cannot relying on what I had been taught and assumed was the truth for many years of my life. Again --- Math. 15:3 1 John 2:4 What is the duty of Man -- Ecc. 12:13 Please take my points in love, Merv |
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10 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | srbaegon | 147630 | ||
Hello Merv, "Please take my points in love," Perhaps if they were given in love I could. You stubbornly refuse sound doctrine. This is closed. Steve |
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11 | Hank - Doctrine from God or Man ? | Bible general Archive 2 | swerv | 147633 | ||
Steve: Thanks for the responses !! I pray all find the truth !!! Merv |
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