Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Hell Burning Today? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 84448 | ||
Mathew Interesting story but without basis. God never commanded, or gave direction to the Jew to evangelize. Pagans that came to God did so after observing God's blessings, power, and might poured out on His people (Rahab in the book of Joshua). No where in the Old Testament do we see any attempt by God, by God's prophets, or by the children of Israel to reach out to others. Jesus himself show reluctance to share what he had with a non Jew in the parable you referred of the woman with a demon possessed daughter. Jesus at first refused her request but at her persistance saying even the dogs get the scraps caused Jesus to reconsider. Look at Paul's ministry at every town he went first to the Synagogues and only after suffering rejection there did he go to the Gentile. Like I said it is an interesting story but the main thing your forgetting is the example Jesus used of Sheol exactly fit the Jewish understanding of Sheol. Therefore the mystery of the parable wasn't Jesus' explanation of Sheol but the need to understand our treatment of others will effect our eternity. Jesus said it very clear, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The parable also carried a masked prophecy, saying "you stiff necked Jews haven't beleived the prophets and even more you won't believe even after I return from grave." EdB |
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2 | Is Hell Burning Today? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84459 | ||
EdB, Thank you for sharing all that you have with me on this leangthy subject. I truly understand were your coming from now. I feel I know enough on this subject to chose which one I feel fits the Bible the best now. You don't have to reply to this last comment of mine If you don't want. Another dilemma that arises with a literal interpretation of this story could be called "the mystery of the empty graves." If this is taken literally, apparently neither of the two leading characters spent very long in the grave--both being whisked away rather quickly to their respective places of reward. Their BODIES obviously came along, for we find the rich man lifting up his eyes, and desiring to have his tongue cooled by a drop of water from the finger of Lazarus who was resting, as we have seen, in Abraham's bosom. Enough graves have been exhumed in recent years to know that the BODIES of the deceased are carried neither to heaven or hell after burial. They finally turn to dust and await the resurrection. From these few examples, we begin to see that in this parable, Jesus was not trying to explain the PHYSICAL realities of the afterlife. Instead, He was referring to the unfaithfulness of the Jews regarding their assigned responsibility. As stewards of the special message of truth, they utterly failed to share it with the Gentiles, who were eager to hear it. In fact, the ENTIRE CHAPTER of Luke 16 is DEVOTED to the subject of STEWARDSHIP. And the other thing about this parable describing Hell and the after-life is that Sheol only means the grave. It never refurs to hell fire,or lake of fire."GAHENNA"however does.Which is not used in this parable. I can see what your saying about what Jewish writings have always said and beleived on this subject. It's just that they also thought they new when the Messiah would come to. Please don't take that last statement offensively. Thanks for helping in my groath,may your reward be in heaven for all the nuggets you have given me. Your friend, Matt |
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3 | Is Hell Burning Today? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 84462 | ||
Mathew Once again you ignore the fact we are both physical and spirit beings. In fact I like to think of us as spirit beings in earth suits. When the body dies or the earth suit gives out our spirit being is freed to move on. If we are trusting in Christ our spirit being will go directly into His presence, to await the resurrection of our earth suit which will be transformed into perfection. If on the other hand we die denying Christ our spirit awaits in Sheol the resurrection and judgement. In your examples above the writer has merely applied physical attributes to the spiritual realities for clarification as an aid to our understanding. Your statement that the Jews thought they knew when Jesus was coming is not completely correct. They did not know when the Messiah would come. Their problem with Jesus was they thought He would come as a conquering hero rather than a humble servant. They never realized the prophecies described two comings. One the Lamb of God that took away the sin of the world and the other the conquering leader that would bring a holy Judgement. Their problem wasn’t with Jesus’ timing it was with His demeanor. Had Jesus came, as He will in the second coming, as lightning flashing across the sky wielding the sword of righteousness they would have accepted Him. However since the world was in sin they would have been judged, what was needed was a redeemer hence Jesus first came to provide redemption. Praise God. EdB |
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4 | Is Hell Burning Today? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mathew | 84464 | ||
EdB, I absolutley agree with you on the part about the Jews thoughts of the coming Messiah. If our spirit goes to heaven after death does that mean that they can't have robes on like in Revalations. because they don't have a heaven suit yet. Because you do agree that we must await the ressuection for it to be transformed? I know that Jesus was eating fish after he resurrected to show that he was real and that heaven was real. That we are not ghost,But he was the firstfruits from the grave, the rest at his coming. I just wanna no if you think that the spirits are enjoying the tangable things of heaven right now since they themselves are not? Matt |
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5 | Is Hell Burning Today? | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 84489 | ||
Mathew Understand Heaven is in the spirit realm, God is spirit and to worship Him we must do it in spirit and in truth John 4:24. When we die we go into the presence of the Lord as Paul tells us in 2 Cor 5:8, however we go as spirit beings and experience the limitation of not having our glorified bodies. What exactly those limitations are I do not know since the Bible does not spell them out. They must be fairly significant since we will desire the resurrection of our glorified bodies. I suspect the biggest limitation in the inability to past from the spirit realm to the physical and back. That is why I do not believe in ghost stories. Whatever the limitations I know we will rather be in that state than in our old state. I suspect we will be able to experience all the glories of God, and have a complete understanding of God, His love for us and His creation. But as I said before I can only speculate on what we can or can not do in this state since the Bible does not tell us more. You referred to Jesus, eating etc. understand He was the first resurrection and Jesus has received his glorified body. We can clearly understand that does not happen to us upon our death, we must wait for the Jesus' to call our bodies from the grave as seen in 1 Thes. 4. Matt what you have learned on this subject is a conclusion based on man's understanding of the subject not knowing or understanding the Jewish teaching or philosophy of death. This coupled with an improper exegesis of the some the scriptures that reference Sheol, Hades and death, have lead them and you to incorrect understanding of what happens upon our death. The teaching you hold while appearing logical ignores unanswered questions. First if Jesus’ parable in Luke 16 is as you say, the question must then be asked why would Jesus tell a story the completely agrees with Jewish understanding of death that is incorrect. By doing this couldn’t it be said Jesus was reinforcing a false teaching? I think we both know that can’t be true. If your teaching on death is correct that we do not go immediately into the presence of the Lord. Then Paul’s teaching in 2 Cor. 5 has to be wrong. Because using “proven and accepted” methods of exegesis the only conclusion that can be reached is that Paul is in fact talking of our spirit man’s situation upon death. Many people try to interpret the Bible for many reasons. The reason often determines the conclusion of the interpretation. In the interpretation process we must determine if the passage is to be taken literally, metaphorically or as an allegory. The method used to do this is called exegesis. The primary rule is to assume everything is literal and use the literal understanding to establish fact. When a literal translation is then found the conflicts with previous established facts it then must be investigated in a metaphorical or allegorical light to see if it will agree. If it can’t be reconcile then the previously established fact must be questioned, and process started over. By this process and over 4000 years of study of the Old Testament and 2000 years of study of the New Testament certain passages have been determined to be taken literally and others are understood to convey their message metaphorically or as an allegory. Our understanding of biblical truths are then built on these established foundations. What the teaching you hold to has done is violated those understandings and in some cases has taken metaphorical passages literally and literal passages metaphorically. I think this was done because and idea was developed and then scripture was needed to prove it. Rather than deciding what scripture said, scripture was used to prove an idea. My suggestion to you is to read the Bible for yourself looking for the truth, not looking to prove what you think is truth. EdB |
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