Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Mystery Resurrection For Holy Ones | Rev 20:5 | Ed O. | 239286 | ||
Hi Beja, Please answer my one question which is: In Zech 14:5 How did the holy ones get to heaven so that they now return with Christ? Ed O. | ||||||
2 | Mystery Resurrection For Holy Ones | Rev 20:5 | Beja | 239287 | ||
Ed.O. When posting a new question mid thread to a specific person, the unwritten norm on the form is to still mark it as a note. It will still alert me via e-mail that I was replied to so that I will not miss the question, and that way a question not meant for the general forum will no clutter the question section. But no worries, as I said, that is an "unwritten" norm. With regards to your question...I will answer it but then I would like to bow out of the conversation. I will try to refrain leaving my post in such a way that challenges you to respond as that would be an ungracious way to ask to be excused. I never wanted to debate viewpoints but only to be helpful in guiding whatever further discussion might ensue apart from me. But to the question...Let me first state what difficulty you might be assuming the text gives my viewpoint and then I will give my answer to it. Let me quote the text for the sake of the many silent readers. "And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God willcome, and all the holy ones with him." The given is that these are saints. I assume we both accept this point. The problem presumably comes when it says that he will bring the holy ones "with" him. The assumption being that they are already with him. How can I therefore say that they were not previously gathered? Clearly this triumphant judgment return of Christ happens at the turning of the ages. Any so called tribulation happens before the return depicted in this verse and here we see the saints are with him here when he does. This is the problem you are suggesting, yes? Let me give you a matching statement from the New Testament which I believe explains this. Paul states that when the Lord returns he will "Bring with him those who have fallen asleep." He says this in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. So here we have a clear statement of whom Christ shall bring with him on his return. Those who have fallen asleep is a euphemism for those who have died in Christ. Second, and this is very much to the point, he is stating whom he will bring with him when he comes to rapture his church. So those whom Christ brings with him are not the raptured, they are the faithful saints through the ages who have died in Christ. Third, even the "bringing them with" is not what we would first expect for he goes on to explain that the "bringing them with" in specifically how it will play out will be Christ showing up, resurrecting the entire lot of them, and then he will call up those still alive. Now you and I would say, "Hey! but that isn't bringing them with him!" How can Paul say they are brouth "with him" and yet his very explanation of this phrase is that he ressurects them just before the rapture? But that is exactly the words that Paul uses for this. So I would argue that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 explain specifically who are brought with Christ, and this event happens AT the rapture. So we see the rapture happens AT the time of Christ's return with his holy ones and AT the resurrection. Which also is AT the same time as his judgment on unbelievers (2 Thess 1:5-10), which happens AT the time of the destruction of the current heavens and earth (2 Pe 3:7). In Christ, Beja |
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