Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | Setonahill | 224487 | ||
stjohn as I have gone further in the reading of 1 Peter I have come to the point where he did indeed answer the question I had in regards to 1:1. As I began reading I had the question so I posed it to the forum. But now as I have come back to my reading I have come to 1 Pet.2:10 where Peter is clearly speaking to the Gentiles. Thanks for your time Setonahill |
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2 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | stjohn | 224488 | ||
Personaly I don't see that being so clear. It says that they were not a people meaning not a people of God or His elect. John Gill has this to say about verse 10 --"Ver. 10. Which in time were not a people,.... A "Loammi" being put upon them; see Ho 1:9 to which the apostle here refers: God's elect, whether among Jews or Gentiles, were, from eternity, his chosen people, and his covenant people; and, as such, were given to Christ, and they became his people, and his care and charge; and he saved them by his obedience, sufferings, and death, and redeemed them to himself, a peculiar people: but then, before conversion, they are not a people formed by God for himself, and his praise; nor Christ's willing people, either to be saved by him, or to serve him; nor are they, nor can they be truly known by themselves, or others, to be the people of God: the Syriac version gives the true sense of the phrase, by rendering it "these who before were not" Nwbvx, "reckoned or accounted a people"; that is, by others:" John |
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3 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | ariel levin | 224490 | ||
Dear John, what is "Nwbvx"? |
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4 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | stjohn | 224491 | ||
You got me there. Im just quoting John Gill. But what he does say in english seems to say it well enough. :-) | ||||||
5 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | Setonahill | 224492 | ||
stjohn In your saying "It says that they were not a people meaning not a people of God or His elect." isn't that an assumption? I can't take what Gill says in his commentary as far as them being "God's elect, whether among Jews or Gentiles," because in Ho.1 it only speaks of Israel, and Judah nowhere is there any mention of Gentiles. This sounds more like a furtherance of Gills belief in the doctrine of election. He has stretched the understanding of the word "Loammi" to encompass the Gentiles where scripture doesn't say that at all. Setonahill |
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6 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | stjohn | 224495 | ||
So I guess your saying it clearly speaks of gentiles must be out in left field somewhere. Which is correct? Who is doing the assuming? I think I'd rely on Gill's interpretation. Thanks John |
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7 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | Setonahill | 224496 | ||
stjohn Even though Gill has not used any scripture to back up what he has promulgated in his commentary. You are willing to accept what he says based only on the fact of who he is even though he has clearly included the Gentiles when they are not even mentioned. This is prophesy to Israel only. Any inclusion of the Gentiles is false teaching. So in answer to your question "Who is doing the assuming?" - - GILL. Hos 1:9 And the LORD said, "Name him [b]Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God." I really feel that this discussion has run it's course no need to answer. Setonahill |
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8 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | Beja | 224497 | ||
Setonahill, There are many places where scripture specifically sees the church and the gentiles included to be the fulfillment of promises made specifically to Israel. 1 Peter 2 quoting Hosea is one example. Another would be what James says in Acts 15. However perhaps the most clear example is Hebrew 8 quoting the new covenant, a covenant very specifically said that it was going to be made with Israel and Judah. This notion that all promises to Israel and Judah must necessarily exclude gentile believers and can not be fulfilled by what is happening in the church is basically the heart of the theology known as dispensationalism. In my opinion this thinking is demonstratably in opposition to what scripture teaches. If we are going to understand scripture, I believe that we must accept that the fulfillments of the promises are bigger than the actual promises themselves. Here is an example. Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. Now I challenge you to show me where Abraham was promised this. Paul is seeing the inheritance of all creation for those who are in Christ as fulfilling a smaller land promise to Abraham. So did God's promise to Abraham fail? Not at all, it is rather a much much bigger fulfillment that yet fulfills the promise. In the same way as this all the promises to Abraham and Israel and Judah all belong to Gentile believers who are in Christ, Abraham's seed. (Galatians 3.) Did God then lie to the Hebrew people? Absolutely not, they are still their promises too, only God has now through the grace in Christ Jesus extended those promises to be to all who trust in Christ. Rom 4:16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (that last one is in KJV because it draws out the same word is being used for seed/descendants) So once again we see the fulfillments are larger than the promises. Because what was promised to Abraham and Israel and Judah are extended to all those in Christ. In Christ, Beja |
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9 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | ariel levin | 224498 | ||
Dear Beja, You are absolutely correct in that the promises are to all who are Avraham's seed. The arm of invitation went out to the goyim long before Messiah walked this earth - it just wasn't heard so well. But, I must agree with setonahill regarding Hos. 1:9. I read the Hebrew scriptures in Hebrew (slowly, like a third or fourth grader) but I know the words am, ammi, and goyim. Whenever the peoples being mentioned are Israel, the word used is Am (or ammi), for other nations, it's goyim (or goy). If the passage was discussing gentiles it should read lo ani goyim (mot my people) but it uses the ammi for my people (Israel). Could gentiles be included? Yes, and no, as they had always been invited but after conversion, they were no longer gentiles. If you know of any place in the Hebrew scriptures where the wording is ammi or am for gentiles, I'm open to correction....:o) |
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10 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | Beja | 224500 | ||
Ariel Levin, Its not an issue of Hebrew Grammer, but rather of scripture and theology. I'm not trying to argue that Hosea was referring to gentiles but yes, he was referring to Israel. But is he making it anymore clear than Jeremiah did in chapter 31? He specifically said to the house of Israel and Judah. That's pretty clear. Yet still the fulfillment is in Christ and His Church, the new covenant. I'm sayin the old testament promises are specifically to Abraham, Israel, David, etc. But these promises through Christ become extended to a larger group than their original groups to whom they are promised. This is because Christ becomes the recipient of every promise, and through my being in Christ, I participate in these promise. In Christ! In Christ, Beja |
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11 | Jewish believers or not | 1 Pet 1:1 | stjohn | 224501 | ||
Well stated brother! | ||||||