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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Logic: The Means to Rightly Divide | 2 Tim 2:15 | DocTrinsograce | 143282 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, Or, for instance, your inference that music is amoral? :-) I'm not certain which of us is the more stuborn! :-) First, we have a set of presuppositions that help us. (I love it when a question comes up that I've been studying!) These include the sufficiency, necessity, and inerrency of scripture. It is our ultimate authority. Second, we have what the divines used to call "the light of nature." That is, logic and minds to apply it. Third, we have a set of principles that guide us in our understanding of scripture. These principles are actually used in a far broader context than just scriptural interpretation. They are used every single day as we read secular books, technical documentation, legal documents, etc. These principles provide us with the means of functioning smoothly as a society. They also help us understand scripture. Fourth, we expose our thinking to a broad forum in an effort to expose any error. (Not just the BibleStudyForum.) (For example, most people don't realize the very scientific, closely scrutinized, and systematic way in which original manuscripts are studied. (Some of the folks doing this aren't even believers, but we trust there work because of logic -- see my other posts.)) We don't have one holy-joe telling us what to believe. Nor do we depend on things like personal feelings. We do not see truth as a matter of individual choosing. We have a huge history of men carefully considering the passages of scripture, writing their conclusions, and being critiqued. Concensus is not our ultimate authority, but we recognize that truth often comes in a consistent manner to the people of God. In Him, Doc Okay... here's the music stuff... In Exodus 32 we read Joshua exclaiming to Moses (v17), "There is a noise of war in the camp!" Moses says (v18), "It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear." This noise -- hardly worthy of the name music -- wasn't even recognized as such by these men. It only gradually dawned on them that what they were hearing was singing! The people were dancing about the image they had made (v19). They were also naked (v25), which gives the implication (inference?) of licentiousness as well. We know from Amos that God hates even religious music that is not offered in obedience from a heart that desires to please Him. How can we possibly imagine that the singing of the people in the camp was an indifferent sound to Him, considering the enormity of their sin? Could any part of their activity been anything but odious to Him? Now, in our discussion of music, this wasn't even an extremely important and necessary part of my argument. If we had only found a single instance of God being pleased or displeased with music it would have sufficed. So, since you are wondering, let me quickly move through the rest of the argument. For the sake of brevity (who me?) I may not prove every point as most of them have already been established. God defines what is true, what is pure, what is holy. The term amoral means "not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral." If music is amoral, therefore, God will never make moral distinctions about it. We will never see Him pleased or displeased with music. However, we DO find instances where God is pleased with music and other instances where God is displeased with music. Therefore, it necessarily follows that music is NOT amoral. Clearly, there is more study to do. For example, we cannot say particularly what are the aspects of moral music and immoral music. When God expresses pleasure or displeasure, does it have to do with lyrics? We'd need to examine the God pleasing and displeasing instances to see if singing was always involved. Etc. Remember we talked about presuppositions? People also have predispositions. We have to be careful that our predispositions do not interfere with our search for truth. For example, do we have some kind of vested interest in the results of our inquiry? (Sometimes people don't WANT the truth!) Or will we simply delight in the truth and ask God for grace to help us adjust our heads, hearts, hands, and habits accordingly? |
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2 | Logic: The Means to Rightly Divide | 2 Tim 2:15 | Hank | 143308 | ||
One man's cacophony is another's harmony; one culture's dulcet melody is another's grating noise. Beyond the general command of "teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs (see Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19), Scripture has laid down no pat rules of hymnody, and it is just as well that it hasn't, for it would doubtlessly present interpretative challenges of gigantic proportions: How would Christians round the world ever form a consensus of what music is "right" for worship and what isn't? There is no absolute measuring rod that I know of. Accordingly, it is a trifle foolish in my view to debate what music is "sacred" and what isn't; it's more of a matter of breeding, culture, and personal taste than it is anything else. A "psalm, hymn, or spiritual song" is defined chiefly by the words, I believe, and not by the music itself to which the words are sung. If the young like a vibrant, pulsating, fast tempo to accompany their songs of praise, I see no earthly reason why we old fogies should condemn them for that and insist on imposing our more sedate musical tastes on the youth. Because I, nearing 70, cannot abide the din and cadence of some modern forms of music, doesn't at all mean that I should presume that young people are being blasphemous when they sing praises to God in a tempo that gets on my old nerves and gives me hives! Now, if the the words themselves are out of kilter with the Scriptures, that's quite a different matter and constitutes grounds for disapproval and censure, no matter how "sacred" the music it is sung to. ........ Music does not have to be "classical" to be good; some modern music is better than some of the classical music. And a hymn does not have to have whiskers on it to be worthy to be sung to the glory of God. There is no reason why the modern Christian cannot worship God in the same ambience in which he lives his daily life, i.e., in the contemporary world of which he is a part. The venerable hymns of two centuries ago were modern, contemporary hymns to those people who lived two centuries ago. The venerable King James Bible was a fresh (some thought it brash) modern translation to those who lived in 1611. The people who sang the fresh, contemporary hymns of two centuries ago or read the King James Bible in 1611 were not necessarily any more pious or devout or dedicated Christians than are the young Christians of our time who sing their hymns to an accelerated tempo and read their Bibles in a modern version that is translated into contemporary English that they can understand. How easy it is to lose sight of the truism that the message is vastly more important than the medium. And how tempting to classify the sacredness of music -- or the superiority and commanding authority of a Bible translation -- according to our own personal tastes, with nothing else to back it up! --Hank | ||||||
3 | Logic: The Means to Rightly Divide | 2 Tim 2:15 | DocTrinsograce | 143316 | ||
Hi, brother Hank. Thank you for your venerable comments! :-) Pushing 70? I look forward to knowing my savior for that length of time. He is so precious now, I cannot imagine what it will be like then! We appreciate the contribution you make to the forum! The issue at stake for me was not to confirm a set of musical preferences, nor to deny someone else their own. I simply have experienced music that is edifying and music that is not. So, the question arises, "What does God think of music?" I do not believe that God is neutral on any aspect of life. However, we do not have -- nor could we possibly have -- an exhaustive set of His position. What we do have, however, covers a lot of ground both explicitly and implicitly. Since I have such a strong desire to please my Lord, I want to examine and re-examine every aspect of my life in that light. If I can discern any thing that pleases Him, I want that implemented in my life. Those objectives -- though they may differ for others -- are the only things that drive me to make such inquiries. So the question is not what pleases people, but what pleases God. Hence, the only personal tastes I am interested in, are those of my Lord Jesus. If I look foolish to the whole world in that pursuit, what care I? :-) In Him, Doc |
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