Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58776 | ||
You guys are so hard! (I'm saying that with a grin on my face as someone who has already been through the fire of the men in this forum once and has lived to tell the tale.) I agree with everything you said to her, but a little gentleness here. I hope she's at least still reading the posts. Here's a thought too on this verse. I am starting with v11. This is an established but loosely organized church. He's writing to Timothy about what he needs to consider there as the church's head and in view of what's going on. Women were not even allowed to be educated as the norm. So they are fairly new to Faith and new to being educated at all. Paul is saying that they should learn. They should do it in quietness and full submissiveness. Which is the proper attitude for any student. Alot of arguing and debating is not a right learning attitude for the one doing it and it is disruptive to the learning environment for all the other students. I see v12 as Paul telling Timothy, 'This is what I would do. Do not allow these women to be the source of their husband's teaching. In fact, don't even let them talk.' In light of the fact of what is going on in the city, who can blame him for advising Timothy to this course. These are ignorant women, just beginning to be educated. Just learning how to "think" if you will. They are also going through a spiritual awakening. The Bible teaches us that this is a point where there is great danger. (Refer to Matthew and parable of the sower and the seeds). And with gnosticism's ugly head slithering around the danger would be imminent. Also I would refer to Joshua and Jericho. I heard a great teaching on this where the basic premise was that they would have talked themselves right out of their miracle if they had been allowed to talk. 'This is stupid. This is never going to work. Why are we doing this?' With their tongues, as James warns us, they would have sliced and diced their own faith and belief in God's Word. So Joshua (from God) just told them to march around the city and not say a word or even make a sound. God intended those walls to come down and since Faith is how He works His miracles, He wasn't going to let those unruly tongues He's given us disrupt His plans, so He just invoked parental authority and said, Shut up. No back talk. Just be quiet and do what you're told. I think in v12 Paul is telling Timothy to do this same thing with these women. Just shut up. Just listen. Just learn. You can ask your questions (probably) but don't you dare presume to speak to tell. Writing a letter was a timely and expensive process. Somethings had to be just left as said, assuming your reader would understand. And Paul could do that with Timothy, his own disciple. So he takes him to Adam and Eve. Whether this is an answer to the nasty bit of gnosticism going around or something to give the men when their wives chew their heads off about the new 'no talking' rule, I don't know, but it would work for either so maybe it served for both. Rather like, 'yes--the flesh was our downfall, but (v15); and also 'this is why it is proper that your wives be quiet'. 'Adam was formed first'. Pretty basic so what does it mean? It means Man was taught first. Timothy wouldn't need to be told that. Man was given/versed in the knowledge first. He got it straight from God, whereas woman got it from him ('then Eve' in the verse). And Adam was not deceived. He just straight up disobeied. (That's my own little insert.--Back to Paul) It was woman who became a sinner through deception. Now, we like Timothy, know the rest of the story. Enough said.--If you're working with quill, ink and parchment. If Woman had had complete knowledge before she started talking with the snake, he couldn't have deceived her. (Isn't that why we're told to study the Word?) She could have thrown the Word back in his face, driving him off. These women aren't equipped to do that any better than Woman was in the garden. Man was the proper one to have been engaged in that debate with the snake. That's why I think God said, 'the ground is cursed because of you'. Not because he listened to woman instead of God, but just as the Word says, because he listened to woman. Period. The student is leading the teacher, and as a result they both died. Man put or let Woman get out in front and let her do the talking without the benefit of complete knowledge, and she got herself killed. That's the story, and Paul is Timothy's teacher. He wouldn't have had to go into all that. So he didn't. v15But she will be saved. The story has a happy ending, Paul seems to be reminding his disciple not to forget to reclarify that. Through childbirth. Which is the Good News, which their church is all about '--as long as they continue......'(meant for men and women with the afterthought being Paul's not mine). So there it is. What do you think? And be nice. |
||||||
2 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | Morant61 | 58815 | ||
Greetings Melanie! It's me again! :-) Pretty good comments. I am in agreement with you on several key points. 1) Quietness refers to control, not utter silence. 2) To have authority over is an unusual word and refers to usurping authority, not simply excercising authority. It is hard to be sure of the detail, but Walter Kaiser, in the book I recommended earlier, says this about this passage: "On the basis of this data, at least two reconstructions of the situation in Timothy's congregation at Ephesus are possible: (1) It is possible that women in the church at Ephesus were the primary advocates and promoters of the heretical teachings which were upsetting accepted patterns of congregational and home life. (2) A second possibility is that the women in the church had been particularly influenced by the heretical teachings....The admonintion of 2:11...is thus directed at the women who, on the basis of the heretical teaching, have become loud voices, strident advocates of ideas which are upsetting the ordered contexts of congregational and home life. The 'submission' enjoined on them is most lkely a submission to the elders in the church, who are the guardians of the truth and ordered worship." Source: "Hard Sayings of Paul", Intervarsity Press, pp. 255-256. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
3 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58837 | ||
Oh excellent! I hadn't even thought about that. I even do that in my business training horses. My client/student can tell me all about the greatest method they have read in some book, and I will discuss it, but if I disagree and I can't convince them, I will just pull out the 'okay, now we have decide who's training this horse' closing argument. Thank you so much! I hope this day the Lord has made finds you well, Melanie |
||||||