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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58776 | ||
You guys are so hard! (I'm saying that with a grin on my face as someone who has already been through the fire of the men in this forum once and has lived to tell the tale.) I agree with everything you said to her, but a little gentleness here. I hope she's at least still reading the posts. Here's a thought too on this verse. I am starting with v11. This is an established but loosely organized church. He's writing to Timothy about what he needs to consider there as the church's head and in view of what's going on. Women were not even allowed to be educated as the norm. So they are fairly new to Faith and new to being educated at all. Paul is saying that they should learn. They should do it in quietness and full submissiveness. Which is the proper attitude for any student. Alot of arguing and debating is not a right learning attitude for the one doing it and it is disruptive to the learning environment for all the other students. I see v12 as Paul telling Timothy, 'This is what I would do. Do not allow these women to be the source of their husband's teaching. In fact, don't even let them talk.' In light of the fact of what is going on in the city, who can blame him for advising Timothy to this course. These are ignorant women, just beginning to be educated. Just learning how to "think" if you will. They are also going through a spiritual awakening. The Bible teaches us that this is a point where there is great danger. (Refer to Matthew and parable of the sower and the seeds). And with gnosticism's ugly head slithering around the danger would be imminent. Also I would refer to Joshua and Jericho. I heard a great teaching on this where the basic premise was that they would have talked themselves right out of their miracle if they had been allowed to talk. 'This is stupid. This is never going to work. Why are we doing this?' With their tongues, as James warns us, they would have sliced and diced their own faith and belief in God's Word. So Joshua (from God) just told them to march around the city and not say a word or even make a sound. God intended those walls to come down and since Faith is how He works His miracles, He wasn't going to let those unruly tongues He's given us disrupt His plans, so He just invoked parental authority and said, Shut up. No back talk. Just be quiet and do what you're told. I think in v12 Paul is telling Timothy to do this same thing with these women. Just shut up. Just listen. Just learn. You can ask your questions (probably) but don't you dare presume to speak to tell. Writing a letter was a timely and expensive process. Somethings had to be just left as said, assuming your reader would understand. And Paul could do that with Timothy, his own disciple. So he takes him to Adam and Eve. Whether this is an answer to the nasty bit of gnosticism going around or something to give the men when their wives chew their heads off about the new 'no talking' rule, I don't know, but it would work for either so maybe it served for both. Rather like, 'yes--the flesh was our downfall, but (v15); and also 'this is why it is proper that your wives be quiet'. 'Adam was formed first'. Pretty basic so what does it mean? It means Man was taught first. Timothy wouldn't need to be told that. Man was given/versed in the knowledge first. He got it straight from God, whereas woman got it from him ('then Eve' in the verse). And Adam was not deceived. He just straight up disobeied. (That's my own little insert.--Back to Paul) It was woman who became a sinner through deception. Now, we like Timothy, know the rest of the story. Enough said.--If you're working with quill, ink and parchment. If Woman had had complete knowledge before she started talking with the snake, he couldn't have deceived her. (Isn't that why we're told to study the Word?) She could have thrown the Word back in his face, driving him off. These women aren't equipped to do that any better than Woman was in the garden. Man was the proper one to have been engaged in that debate with the snake. That's why I think God said, 'the ground is cursed because of you'. Not because he listened to woman instead of God, but just as the Word says, because he listened to woman. Period. The student is leading the teacher, and as a result they both died. Man put or let Woman get out in front and let her do the talking without the benefit of complete knowledge, and she got herself killed. That's the story, and Paul is Timothy's teacher. He wouldn't have had to go into all that. So he didn't. v15But she will be saved. The story has a happy ending, Paul seems to be reminding his disciple not to forget to reclarify that. Through childbirth. Which is the Good News, which their church is all about '--as long as they continue......'(meant for men and women with the afterthought being Paul's not mine). So there it is. What do you think? And be nice. |
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2 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | coffee | 58781 | ||
Melanie, according to her profile, SahraP has not posted for 5 months. May she still hold HIS love in her heart. deb |
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3 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58787 | ||
They can be vicious in here. Could it be 1Cor14:34 put into action right here before our eyes? Just kidding. Sort of. But that is why the verse is so unsettling to me if we just accept this modern translation of it. It runs women away from the church and I can't think that Jesus wants that. I'm glad to see you are always here. So what did you think of the post? Melanie |
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4 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | coffee | 58790 | ||
Hello Melanie, Which post are you asking about? For my walk, I employ Romans 14 and 15. Dogmatism often comes from weaker faith - I am certainly not saying 'as a result', please don't misunderstand me. My wish is to never upset another Christian and so if someone becomes dogmatic or bullish I simply bow out - a bit like the way Jesus would leave the scene if it did not suit GOD's plan. Melanie, you do well to stay in GOD's love, May HE always bless you through your faith in Jesus. deb |
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5 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58793 | ||
I don't think I know enough yet to have developed any dogma. I hope I never do if it robs you of the pure joy of being in Christ and the joy of studying His Word. I am trying to learn the dogma and doctrines and tenets of the various peoples of Faith, but they seem to place so many restrictions and conditions and they don't like questions. It will be hard. But I'll just have to be persistant. Brother Tim here on the Forum is a wonderful correspondant and seems very well versed in studying the Word. Ah well, I go where the Spirit guides me and just enjoy the journey. Even when it hurts. God bless, Melanie |
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6 | What does this verse mean? | 1 Tim 2:15 | angel1 | 58795 | ||
Hi melanie-i am angel-1 have been off site for a while-What a challenge! this verse is difficult for every thinking woman!-I certainly have no "pat' answers but then- no one who thinks has "pat" answers--I hope you abandon any efforts to establish "dogma"--this has been a problem in the church all along--When i say "the church" I mean the body of born again believers on the face of this planet- I think they can be found everywhere--Jesus knows where and who we are. In Him-Angel-1 | ||||||