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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Ray | 8582 | ||
The discussion of 2Thess 2:7 on this forum would be good prerequisite reading for this question. Please respond to this interpretation by the use of capitalization. Its from Ray's Personal Copy, or whatever my version is. "Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? And you know what restrains Him now, so that in His time He may be revealed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay..." |
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2 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Makarios | 8596 | ||
Interesting question, Ray! (And yes, I have read the 2 Thess 2:7 thread before jumping here.. :) ) Here, Paul is writing to the believers in the Thessalonian church, trying to reassure them that Christ had not already returned, and that the Antichrist was yet to come.. Yet this verse speaks of a 'mystery of lawlessness'.. In the NT a mystery usually refers to something that people could not know by themselves but that God has revealed (see Rom. 11:25).. It is most often used in reference to the Gospel. The expression here indicates that we know some things about evil only as God reveals them. This evil is already at work and will continue until the restrainer is removed at the end time. This spirit of lawlessness is already prevalent in society (cf. 1 John 3:4; 5:17), but still a mystery in that it is not fully revealed as it will be in the one who so blatantly opposes God that he blasphemously assumes the place of God on earth which God has reserved for Jesus Christ. The spirit of such a man is already in operation (cf. 1 John 2:18; 4:3), but the man who fully embodies that spirit has not yet come. And if he is here, I would venture to guess that he is not reading this on the Study Bible Forum! :) Ray, your "Personal Copy" sounds interesting! I'll venture to guess that it is a formal equivalence translation with special contextual attention to punctuation! :) I like it, I like it.. Sources: Zondervan NASB Study Bible, MacArthur NKJV Study Bible Nolan Keck |
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3 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Ray | 8615 | ||
Hi Nolan Keck, Thanks for your remarks. My copy is as you described it with a little bit of NKJ considered here and there. Look at the NKJ at verse 2:7 and tell me who is the Restrainer and who is taken out of the way. | ||||||
4 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Morant61 | 8618 | ||
Greetings Ray! May I take a stab at your question? I checked out the Greek on this passage. The Restrainer is never named. However, grammatically, the Restrainer must be the one removed. In the clause, "He who restrains" is the subject. The verb of the clause is the passive "taken out of the way". Therefore, the Restrainer has to be the One who is removed. As to the identity of the Restrainer, I believe it must be the Holy Spirit. However, since the text never says, I have simply expressing my opinion. But, I think the Holy Spirit is the only One who makes sense. The "lawless one" cannot be fully active or revealed until the Holy Spirit no longer restrains him. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Ray | 8642 | ||
Hi Tim Moran, In regard to your last sentence, I wonder why you think that the lawless one is going to be revealed and fully active in the context of this scripture? I see him as being revealed and slayed at Christ's coming. In one of the Interlineal Greek/English publications that I studied for this question, the side column has the New Revised Standard Version. I don't agree with that version for the reading of verse 7, for it doesn't agree with the Greek. One of the Greek publications has "There is One holding it back" and the other also has "until out of the midst it comes." The Holy Spirit isn't an it. Thanks for any more input here. |
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6 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Morant61 | 8651 | ||
Greetings Ray! Admittedly, the text here doesn’t specify what will happen when the Restrainer is removed. My assumption is that this will take place at the rapture of the church and that the lawless one will then be active for a short period of time before he is overthrown at the coming of Christ. So I would see a separation of time between the revealing and the overthrowing, even though the text here doesn’t specify that is the case. Concerning the NRSV, are you referring to the addition of the pronoun ‘it?’ I understand your comment about ‘it’ referring to the Holy Spirit. However, there are occasions in Scripture where a neuter is used in reference to the Holy Spirit. Check out John 14:26, 15:26, and 16:13-14. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the neuter a neuter can be a reference to the Holy Spirit. But, 2 Thess. 2:7 is clearly masculine, "He who restrains." Thanks! Great Question by the way! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Ray | 8683 | ||
Hi Tim, Concerning the NRSV, I was referring to the addition of the pronoun it. I think that it refers to the mystery of lawlessness or the lawless one, whichever. Thus I would not see a pronoun here to capitalize, whether he or it. If you want to say that "it" should be there in the NRSV then you are saying that the mystery of lawlessness which is already at work will then end when the One is removed. See "but only until" in the NRSV. And that is not what you are saying to me that you believe. The verses you referenced for the Holy Spirit point out to me when I checked the Greek/English copies, the fact of inconsistencies of the translators. John 14:26 had the Greek "that One" in the text but ommitted it in translating. In 15:26 the translation in the NRSV is 'he', as also your other reference. Plus, compare John 14:26 and John 16:8 for "that One" in the Greek and NRSV. I think you will be able to see the inconsistency that I don't believe should be there. |
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8 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Morant61 | 8687 | ||
Greetings Ray! I agree with you about 'it.' I just wasn't sure if that was what you were refering to. There definitely is no pronoun in 2:7. However, the article used with the participle "holding back" is masculine and thus should be translated "he who holds back." John 14:26: "That one" is there. It would have been better to translate it. However, the context still makes it clear who will teach us all things. John 15:26 also uses "that one." So does, John 16:8. I originally brought these verses up simply to demonstrate that the Holy Spirit is sometimes referenced as neuter and sometimes as masculine. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | 2Thess 2:7 forum, then respond | 2 Thess 2:6 | Ray | 8719 | ||
Hi Tim, I get the impression that you aren't getting into this capitalization thing. We've discovered so far that the Restrainer is the One who restrains. John 14:26 is clear about who will teach us all things. All three Persons are involved. But the final line is that He will teach you all things. See also John 4:25,"...when that One comes, (He) will declare all things to us." And John 4:19, "Sir, I perceive that You are a (Prophet). Parenthesis mine for comparison. An interesting comparison here might be 2Thess 2:2 with John 4:25 above. Also, 2Thess 2:8 with John 4:29. Let me know if you considered them; the operating word is "might". The disciples knew the Spirit of truth. John 14:17, "...but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; (I) will come to you." Later, Ray |
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