Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135100 | ||
Hi Guys, I’d like to provoke some thought about that most controversial of Catholic doctrines: Purgatory. Or let’s call it the completion of sanctification after death for those who need it. Or at least for me to really understand your view of the end of God's work in us. Justification (as is most commonly understood) is essentially the declaration by God that we are right with him. Even the nastiest sinner is justified as soon as he is ‘regenerate.’ This is essentially a judicial declaration; some of these people are still bound up with many sins and bad habits. This new Christian may still be addicted to drugs, still be a homosexual, etc. Nevertheless, this person is ‘just’ no sin is held against them by God because of the atonement. This person has embarked on the journey of Sanctification. Fortunately, God often eradicates some of these terrible sin patterns almost immediately. Perhaps an alcoholic or smoker is instantly delivered. This does not always happen. But hopefully, we are all on a journey in the direction of perfection or full sanctification. Of course we usually die first but we might get most or all of the way. However, some people don’t get very far on this journey at all; and some people don’t live very long after coming to know Jesus Christ. Anyway, God uses our earthly lives to discipline us and develop our sanctity. Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." My question is do evangelicals believe that, unlike in life, God does the last bit of the work pain-free and even the uncleanest person is instantly perfect. Whooooosh! I know some will say yes quoting , 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. However, this is referring to the resurrection of the body at the end of history isn’t it. A person needing further sanctifying would be imperishable as well. This verse I submit disproves nothing. Because, a person needing further post-death sanctification is a justified Christian (as in life) I contend this does not in any way demean the atonement. I ask this as a topic for a bit of speculative theologizing. Those against, is there scripture conclusively proving God doesn’t sanctify in the after life. Regards Dalcent |
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2 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | New Creature | 135122 | ||
Dalcent you asked: "is there scripture conclusively proving God doesn’t sanctify in the after life." To which I counter with: Can you provide any Scripture that would indicate that "sanctifcation is continued in the individual in the after life? |
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3 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135151 | ||
Hi New creature, You understand my question well, understanding that I am querying sanctification not our being made just by the atonement. How about? Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (What is this forgiveness in the age to come?). This next one is after death isn't it? Where does it occur? 1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 1Co 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. What about this? An very enigmatic verse. Mar 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire. What does Jesus mean here; why not just say he will never get out? Luk 12:59 I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the very last penny." Post-death 'purification/sanctification' allegedly happens in the period between death and the general resurrection of the body on the last day. The Bible has very little to say on this period anyway. But souls are already pre-sorted into those who died in God's grace and those who are lost, aren't they? What about Dan 11:35 and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. (Waiting for the resurrection of the last day perhaps?) Regards Dalcent |
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4 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | New Creature | 135276 | ||
Dalcent; I don't see any the verses you listed as being in reference to sanctification. To sanctify means commonly to make holy, that is, to separate from the world and consecrate to God. I do believe in a positional sanctification and also in a sanctification that is a continious on-going process in the life of every believer in which we co-operate with the Holy Spirit. That is, we have a passive role in our progressive sanctification. I think you are trying to stretch the verses you listed to imply something more than what they actually say. Nevertheless, your entitled to your view on this. It's just that I believe you need better supporting text than what you have provided in order to convince me of any post-death sanctification. New Creature |
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5 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135278 | ||
New Creature, I can't reconcile co-operate with the Holy Spirit. and we have a passive role in our progressive sanctification. We are co-workers (synergos); working together. We are not passive. Regards Dalcent |
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