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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135100 | ||
Hi Guys, I’d like to provoke some thought about that most controversial of Catholic doctrines: Purgatory. Or let’s call it the completion of sanctification after death for those who need it. Or at least for me to really understand your view of the end of God's work in us. Justification (as is most commonly understood) is essentially the declaration by God that we are right with him. Even the nastiest sinner is justified as soon as he is ‘regenerate.’ This is essentially a judicial declaration; some of these people are still bound up with many sins and bad habits. This new Christian may still be addicted to drugs, still be a homosexual, etc. Nevertheless, this person is ‘just’ no sin is held against them by God because of the atonement. This person has embarked on the journey of Sanctification. Fortunately, God often eradicates some of these terrible sin patterns almost immediately. Perhaps an alcoholic or smoker is instantly delivered. This does not always happen. But hopefully, we are all on a journey in the direction of perfection or full sanctification. Of course we usually die first but we might get most or all of the way. However, some people don’t get very far on this journey at all; and some people don’t live very long after coming to know Jesus Christ. Anyway, God uses our earthly lives to discipline us and develop our sanctity. Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." My question is do evangelicals believe that, unlike in life, God does the last bit of the work pain-free and even the uncleanest person is instantly perfect. Whooooosh! I know some will say yes quoting , 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. However, this is referring to the resurrection of the body at the end of history isn’t it. A person needing further sanctifying would be imperishable as well. This verse I submit disproves nothing. Because, a person needing further post-death sanctification is a justified Christian (as in life) I contend this does not in any way demean the atonement. I ask this as a topic for a bit of speculative theologizing. Those against, is there scripture conclusively proving God doesn’t sanctify in the after life. Regards Dalcent |
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2 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | EWE | 135117 | ||
I love friendly discussions. Please forgive me if I misunderstand your question. However, here is my answer (please allow me this premise, which others may not agree with, but I hold to this): Jesus' atonement is all I need, period. Allow me to explain my fervent belief. Romans 3:23 and James 2:10 both state that we fall short. We WILL sin (be rebellious to God's law). Matthew 5:48 says to be perfect, yet we cannot. Romans 6 states we war with our very desires and constantly do that which we do NOT wish to but that which we WANT to do (good) we find hard to do. Romans 10:9 says we are to confess our sins to the Lord and we will be saved. Isaiah 1:18 says that our sins (as scarlet) shall be white as snow (bright bright white and clean). Matthew 10:32-33 states whoever acknowledges God before men, Jesus will acknowledge to God the Father in heaven (and visa versa-ouch). John 1:12-13 states believing in Him gives us the RIGHT to be children of God (yahoo!!!!!). John 6:47 says, "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." -and- Ephesians 2:8-9 states "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast. Wowzers. Okay, so, I hold that my justification into heaven is not by my works or anything I do here on earth, but through confessing that I am a sinner, I need Jesus Christ to save me from the penalty of my sin (all of it) and calling on His free gift of salvation, through His most precious blood.......is enough. Now, grace without works is bad. For the Bible says we will be known by our fruit, the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Yet, that is between God and each person. I hold it is His responsibility to work with us, like a "potter with clay" and it is God's grace, through the blood of Jesus Christ and my not rejecting God's Son, Jesus that will gain my entrance into heaven. I do not just say Jesus is Jesus, for even Satan knows who Jesus is. I call him, "My Savior." In Him, Cheryl |
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3 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | Dalcent | 135150 | ||
Hi there, I think I very nearly hold your views on justification (however I contend that faith is always evidenced by works: always! no hypothetical explanations how actually works are separate and not essential). However, most Christians of every stripe (I think) hold that there is also a divinely-led journey to actual (not imputed) sinlessness / holiness / sanctification. It is the former justification which gets you into heaven, only Christ's expiatory sacrifice gets you this amnesty! However, it is God's will that we become perfectly holy in actuality too. This is a separate issue. Regards Dalcent |
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4 | It's never effort-free with God! | 1 Thess 5:23 | EWE | 135284 | ||
Well, I agree that faith is evidenced by works, since we are called to be salt by God. Without evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, we are not saved. For we CANNOT be saved without showing fruit. The Bible plainly states we will be known by our fruit. However, where the Bible states to be perfect for Jesus was (is) perfect, God also knows we CANNOT be perfect here on earth. The Apostle Paul warn us that even though ALL our sins have been forgiven, that it is not a reason to sin more (emphasis on the word more). So I have to believe God wants us to STRIVE to be holy and perfect, knowing we will constantly fail at this, for we are sinful creatures. The only way we can truly sin less, is to memorize scripture. I now believe we will be held accountable for that one. One of my proffs in college wrote a book on this (Danny Lovett) He says (and it makes sense) Just as a soldier will LOSE IN BATTLE if he holds his sword with one or two fingers, so will we constantly lose the battle against sin, without hearing the Word, reading the Word, Studying the Word, memorizing the Word and reviewing (meditating) on the Word of God. He states (and it impacted me) that since the Word of God (the Sword of the Spirit) never comes back empty, that the more scripture we memorize, the more the Holy Spirit has to work with us, to fight temptation just as Jesus fought off the temptation with Satan...with Scripture. So, to answer your question/debate (thank you for your clarification), God commands us to memorize scripture. It's a command. You say, "God uses our earthly lives to discipline us and develop our sanctity." I think we have many things to learn here on earth. Yet (please correct me if I missunderstand), from what you say, I get the impression that you believe God will continue His sanctification, discipline and lessons in His kingdom. I don't want to continue on some rabbit trail if this is NOT what you mean. Would you mind expounding on your question?? Cheryl |
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