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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Oneness and the word "person" | 2 Cor 13:14 | kalos | 112640 | ||
Oneness and the word "person" ' Oneness theology denies the Trinity doctrine and claims that there is one person in the Godhead who has manifested himself in three different forms: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These "forms" are not three separate persons, but one person who occupied consecutive modes. The Trinity, on the other hand, is the teaching that there is one God who exists in three separate, simultaneous, persons. Please note, though, this is not saying there are three gods. ' In defending the doctrine of the Trinity and in examining the Oneness doctrine regarding the Godhead, it is first necessary to define the terms that are used. Since the Trinity doctrine states there are three persons in one God, and Oneness Pentecostal theology states there is only one person, we first need to know what a "person" is before we try to discover whether or not God is three persons or one. Therefore, what qualifies someone as having "personhood"? ' I offer the following analysis as an attempt to adequately define personhood. After the outline, I will attempt to show that the definition and/or characteristics of personhood can be applied to both the Father and the Son in a context that shows they both existed as persons at the same time, thereby proving Oneness theology is incorrect. 'What are the qualities and attributes of being a person? 'A person exists and has identity. 'A person is aware of his own existence and identity. 'This precludes the condition of being unconscious. 'A self aware person will use such a statement as "I am", "me", "mine", etc. 'A person can recognize the existence of other persons. 'This is true provided there were other persons around him or her. 'Such recognition would include the use of such statements as "you are", "you", "yours", etc. 'A person possesses a will. 'A will is the capability of conscious choice, decision, intention, desire, and or purpose. 'A single person cannot have two separate and distinct wills at the same time on the exact same subject. 'Regarding the exact same subject, a person can desire/will one thing at one moment and another at a different moment. 'Separate and simultaneous wills imply separate and simultaneous persons. 'A person has the ability to communicate -- under normal conditions. 'Persons do not need to have bodies. 'God the Father possesses personhood without a body, as do the angels. 'Biblically speaking, upon death we are "absent from the body and home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8). ' God qualifies as having personhood in that He exists, is self aware, has identity, uses terms such as "Me", "I AM", "My", and possesses a will. ' The question now becomes whether or not there are more than one "persons" in the Godhead. '"Let this cup pass from Me." '"And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42Saying, 'Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done'" (Luke 22:42). '"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, 'O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt'" (Matt. 26:39). ' In both Luke 22:42 and Matt. 26:39 (which are parallel passages), the context is Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, right before His betrayal. He was praying to the Father about the ordeal He was about to undergo. Several points are worth bringing out here. ' First, in this passage, Jesus addresses the Father. He says, "Oh my Father..." Note that Jesus says "my" and "Father." These two words designate a "me and you" relationship. ' Second, "If it be possible" is Jesus expressing a desire, a hope. What is that hope or desire? It is that "this cup pass from me." The cup Jesus is speaking of is the immanent ordeal of betrayal, scourging, and crucifixion. Jesus did not want to go through this. He was expressing His desire. It was His will not to undergo the severe ordeal ahead of Him. If this was not so, He would not have expressed the desire to have the cup pass from Him. ' Third, in Matt. 26:39, Jesus says, "Nevertheless., not my will, but thine, be done." In Luke 22:42 he says, "Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." With this, Jesus is expressing His will and contrasting it to the will of the Father. Yet, He is stating that even though He does not want to undergo what lay ahead, "Nevertheless," He would submit to the will of the Father. ' This shows that the person of Jesus had a separate and different will than the Father. Since we have two separate simultaneous wills, we have two separate and simultaneous persons and Oneness Pentecostal theology is incorrect.' ____________________ (www.carm.org) 2cor1314 |
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2 | Oneness and the word "person" | 2 Cor 13:14 | Makarios | 112832 | ||
Greetings Kalos, I am sure that it comes as no surprise when those who hold to the "Oneness" heresy seek to twist such a well stated post into something incommunicable and unscriptural at the core. Time and time again, the Tri-unity of God has been defended on this Forum, and it will continue to be defended. Great work! Makarios |
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3 | is this detramental to salvation | 2 Cor 13:14 | bloodofjesus | 112967 | ||
greetings all ,ok look,1 or 3 does it matter?if so way?i personaly pray to all 3,usually through jesus ,is this wrong ?should i pray to just jesus (no one comes to the father but through me) then bypass jesus ,on to god as a greeting. i pray for the Holy spirit to work on people,is that ok? we couldnt kill god but we could kill his son becouse he is part of god not all of god. (your son is part of you but not all of you right? Jesus is part of god but not all of god, cause we killed him ,jesus ,but did not kill god jesus died for our sins not god. anyways we can argue this til jesus comes back, unless one of these beliefs means the other isnt going back with us .does it? im more interested in who do we pray to when we pray. | ||||||
4 | is this detramental to salvation | 2 Cor 13:14 | prayon | 112978 | ||
Greetings! God gave us His son as a sacrifice for our sins. He made Him human so that He could die for us. We are to pray to God the Father in Jesus name. No where in the bible does it tell us to pray to Jesus. There are two areas of prayer. The first one is the Formal side of prayer or the business side. This is conducting spiritual transactions or business with God through prayer (1Cor 3:9). The other side is the informal side of prayer or the nonbusiness side. This is fellowshipping with God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Joh 16:23 When that day comes, you won't ask me any more questions. I can guarantee this truth: If you ask the Father for anything in my name, he will give it to you. Eph 5:20 Always thank God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Phi 4:6 Never worry about anything. But in every situation let God know what you need in prayers and requests while giving thanks. Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, in our prayers for you. Hope this clears it up for you. prayon |
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