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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Zealot, are you a sinner or saint? | Rom 8:10 | kalos | 18129 | ||
*God chooses those who choose him.* Is that what the Bible really teaches? "Foreknowledge. Occasionally someone will suggest that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of certain events. This argument suggests that God simply looks into the future to see who will believe, and He chooses those whom He sees choosing Him. Notice that 1 Peter 1:2 says the elect are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father," and Romans 8:29 says, "whom He foreknew, He also predestined." And if divine foreknowledge simply means God's knowledge of what will happen in advance, then these arguments may appear to have some weight behind them. "But that is not the biblical meaning of "foreknowledge." When the Bible speaks of God's foreknowledge, it refers to God's establishment of a love relationship with that person. The word "know," in both the Old and New Testament, refers to much more than mere cognitive knowledge of a person. Such passages as Hosea 13:4-5; Amos 3:2 (KJV); and Romans 11:2 clearly indicate this. For example, 1 Peter 1:20 says Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world." Surely this means more than that God the Father looked into the future to behold Christ! It means He had an eternal, loving relationship with Him. The same is true of the elect, whom we are told God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). That means He knew them--he loved them--before the foundation of the world." (See: www.gty.org/IssuesandAnswers/archive/election.htm) |
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2 | Zealot, are you a sinner or saint? | Rom 8:10 | Zealot | 18295 | ||
For example, 1 Peter 1:20 says Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world." Surely this means more than that God the Father looked into the future to behold Christ! It means He had an eternal, loving relationship with Him. The same is true of the elect, whom we are told God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). That means He knew them--he loved them--before the foundation of the world." You know, this sounds logical, but contains three elemental flaws: First, Christ existed prior to creation, whereas earthly humans did not. Discussions elsewhere in this forum pretty well conclude that conception is the moment when the soul/spirit is created in each person. Without the same pre-existance as Christ, the relationship cannot be the same. Second, the term "foreknowledge" does not for God relate in any way to the future. God exists outside time. The moment you realize that there is no past or future for the trancendant creator of our universe, you will begin to change your perspective on what words like "was', "is", and "will become" mean to God. "Foreknowledge" is the past for us, but simply "is" for Him. If the elect were with Him before the foundations of the world, as Christ was, then the elect have no beginning. Finally, Jesus said "I and the Father are one". The Bible refers often to Christ being "in" His followers (transliterated more nearly to "in the same place" rather than "inside"), but never equivilates Christ with His followers. The relationship between God and Christ is one of absolute unity. Jesus was God dwelling in our midst, made for a time lower than the angels. The relationship between God and His human children is very different. This relationship does have a beginning, though (hopefully) no ending, and will be everlasting and eternal once joined, but is very temporal in this life. God views the past, the present, and the future simultaneously. He knows who will hear, believe, and repent. He knows who will not. He knows who will turn away, and who's name's will be erased from the book of life. If the choice of the elect is not involved in the relationship, if His followers have no free will, then this is a pre-arranged, forced marriage. That is not at all how the Bible reads, with example after example of those who chose not to follow, or who broke off the engagement before the wedding feast. The choice must be mutual for it to have any value whatever. God chooses those who choose Him. |
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