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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Greek scholars help with translation? | Rom 2:14 | MJH | 200687 | ||
Are there any Greek scholars out there? I'd like to know if the Greek of this verse can be translated as below. I'm not asking if you think in should be, but rather can it be translated this way without violating the rules of Greek? "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law by nature, do what the Law requires, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" Note: the main change is in where to apply the word "nature." If I can find someone to verify (double source) this possible translation for me, that would be helpful since I am ignorant of Greek syntax and structure. Also, every known English translation puts "nature" the same way . . . "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law, do by nature ..." Thanks, MJH |
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2 | Greek scholars help with translation? | Rom 2:14 | DocTrinsograce | 200706 | ||
Hi, MJH... I'm no Greek scholar... but I like the Analytical-Literal Translation: For when nations, the ones not having [the] Law, by nature are doing the [things] of the Law, these not having [the] Law are a law to themselves; (Romans 2:14 ALT) I wrote about the word ethnos back in post #178241. By the way, why do you dislike the NASB and Amplified translations? In Him, Doc |
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3 | Greek scholars help with translation? | Rom 2:14 | MJH | 200715 | ||
Hey, Doc It's been a long time. Good to see you are still around these parts. I do not dislike the NASB nor the Amplified translations. The amplified of course is more interpretation, but is real nice for reading and an additional resource. When reading Romans 2 recently, I noticed while crossing over this familiar passage a pause that made me wonder if there shouldn't be at least a look at changing the translation. My reason was because in many other parts of scripture it seems obvious that "no one seeks God and no one does good, not even one." So why would Paul attempt to say that non-regenerate Gentiles would "do what the Law requires." Second, I have am not currently in favor of assuming that Paul is dividing the Law up here into only "common" law (do not murder, do not steal) or even a so called Noahidic Law common to all peoples. So in re-reading the English text (since I don't read Greek unfortunately) I put in mind that these were Gentiles who were "regenerate" (ie. Christians to use our term). Then the Text made some sense: the Jews, who were "in the flesh" born into the covenant and grew up with the Law and heard it read weekly or more, were in reality not "doing it"; but, the Gentiles who were not "in the flesh" born into the covenant, but grafted into Israel through the faith of Abraham, were now actually hearing and doing the Law. “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Furthermore, the Law is “written on their hearts” still speaking of Gentiles. This is drawing back on Jeremiah 31, which speaks of the whole Law and also speaks only of Israel, therefore in Romans 11 Paul speaks of how the Gentiles are grafted into Israel. If the Law is written on their hearts, it must be the Holy Spirit that does this, and this also means they must be regenerate Gentiles, not random pagans in any culture. Therefore: “…when Gentiles, who do not have by nature the Law [of Moses], do the things required by the Law [of Moses], they are …” Also, this change (not in the Greek, but in the translation) that I propose does not in anyway change the argument that Paul is making. The only real practical change is that a lot of sermons based on “all cultures” having a common law because we were all created in the Image of God, etc… will need to find a different passage to preach from. Doc, I was waiting to reply until I had more time, but when your response also came, I couldn’t resist. Then I remembered that on this forum, I like to test some of my thinking out even before I have had time to really organize and confirm or not confirm my thinking. It’s nice to have a place where a person can think out loud. MJH |
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4 | Greek scholars help with translation? | Rom 2:14 | DocTrinsograce | 200733 | ||
Dear MJH, Shalom aleichem. Interesting thoughts. I'd argue, however, that you are interpreting the phrase "do the Law" as though it meant "complying with the Law." The Gentile nations do not continually hear the Law as have many of the Jews. However, they demonstrate how deeply engraved into their moral natures are the mandates of the Law, accusing or condemning them based on the degree to which they violate or comply with it. Remember that the subject of the first three chapters of Romans is the universality of sin, so we'll want to interpret every passage within that generally context. You might find it beneficial to research what the Reformers meant by the "law of nature" and the "light of nature." They specifically and explicitly deliberated the very points you are excogitating. In other words, you will find this field pretty well plowed already. :-) You can see a lot farther standing on the shoulders of giants. In Him, Doc |
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5 | Greek scholars help with translation? | Rom 2:14 | MJH | 200737 | ||
Doc, Granted you can (see further on the shoulders of giants)...and I have...and I value them for their theology and mostly of course their courage in light of the times they lived. Forever indebted are we to them! Calvin was always a preferred favorite in my upbringing. That being said, I've of recent come to see that Paul was not teaching that the Law of Moses was no longer applicable (or not applicable) to the lives of both Jews and Gentiles (ie. so I do see him saying "do the Law." Granted, I have not plowed these text (In Romans 2) like I should, but rather have been tilling the good soil of Galatians and ended up here on an excursion. So, I hold these "truths?" to be non-self evident and shall continue to work them over. It's been nearly 7 years now where I started this trek, allowing myself to ask the questions in search of the truth while holding so very tightly to the doctrine and teachings of the giants of the faith, some times too tightly. After all, beliefs that have been held for hundreds of years have been held that way for a reason. Either way, we all agree that salvation is through faith and faith in Jesus the Messiah alone both now, in the first century, and before the Messiah was born. MJH |
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