Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Church Visible and Invisible | Acts 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 243763 | ||
"The great and worldly-wise people take offence at the poor and mean form of our church, which is subject to many infirmities, transgressions, and sects, wherewith she is plagued; for they say the church should be altogether pure, holy, blameless, God's dove, etc. And the church, in the eyes and sight of God, has such an esteem; but in the eyes and sight of the world, she is like unto her bridegroom, Christ Jesus, torn, spit on, derided, and crucified. "The similitude of the upright and true church and of Christ, is a poor silly sheep; but the similitude of the false and hypocritical church, is a serpent, an adder." (Tabletalk #CCCLXVIII) "It is impossible for the Christian and true church to subsist without the shedding of blood, for her adversary, the devil, is a liar and a murderer. The church grows and increases through blood; she is sprinkled with blood; she is spoiled and bereaved of her blood; when human creatures will reform the church, then it costs blood." (Tabletalk #CCCLXX) --Martin Luther (1483-1546) |
||||||
2 | The Church Visible and Invisible | Acts 12:1 | EdB | 243774 | ||
"The great and worldly-wise people take offence at the poor and mean form of our church, which is subject to many infirmities, transgressions, and sects, wherewith she is plagued; for they say the church should be altogether pure, holy, blameless, God's dove, etc. And the church, in the eyes and sight of God, has such an esteem; but in the eyes and sight of the world, she is like unto her bridegroom, Christ Jesus, torn, spit on, derided, and crucified. Martin Luther Jesus was innocent He was torn, spit on, derided, and crucified without cause, unfortunately today's church is not innocent. To our shame we present to the world a blemished view of Christ, and we often do it because of piety to things not of God. |
||||||
3 | The Church Visible and Invisible | Acts 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 243779 | ||
Dear Pastor Ed, Thank you for your comment! That is a very pertinent comment, indeed. As I posted Martin Luther's comments to his students, I thought about this. Reformed people see the church as referring to two separate entities: The visible and the invisible. The visible are all that is seen with the eye of the flesh. As we drive down the street, or as we look out at the congregation, etc. The visible church covers a wide spectrum of faults. Indeed, all of them have a mixture of truth and error -- to the point that some have become the synagogue of Satan (cf Revelation 3:9). The invisible church consists of all those who have gone on to be with the Lord, as well as those who are truly saved upon the earth. While we yet live, we pursue the same purity as those of our member who have gone on (we call that progressive sanctification), assured of the promise of God (cf Ephesians 2). Here is how one of the Baptist divines, Benjamin Keach, put it: "We believe a true Church of Christ is not National, nor Parochial, but doth consist of a number of godly Persons, who upon the Profession of their Faith and Repentance have been baptized, and in a solemn manner have in a Holy Covenant given themselves up to the Lord, and to one another, to live in Love, and to endeavour to keep the Unity of the Spirit in the Bond of Peace: Among whom the Word of God is duly and truly preached; and Holy Baptism, the Lord’s Supper, and all other Ordinances are duly administered, according to the Word of God, and the Institution of Christ in the Primitive Church: watching over one another, and communicating to each others Necessities, as becometh Saints; living Holy Lives, as becomes their sacred Profession; and not to forsake the assembling themselves,as the manner of some is; or to take leave to hear where they please in other Places when the Church is assembled, but to worship God, and feed in that Pasture, or with that Church, with whom they have covenanted, and given up themselves as particular Members thereof." Just as Christ took on the sinfulness of all those that are saved (as though He had done the sins), He also placed upon His own His righteousness (as though they had done it). This is what Paul meant by imputation (see Romans 1:17; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 2:20; Philippians 3:9; etc.). Our Lord is washing the church in His word (cf Ephesians 5:25-27). Thus, Luther is mindful of the following: For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ. But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is effective in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer; and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort. (2 Corinthians 1:5-7) It helps us to understand, further, what Paul wrote: Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions. (Colossians 1:24) There is nothing else that allows us to rightly understand "what is lacking in Christ's afflictions" (cf Acts 9:5b). There will come a time when every tear shall be wiped away and all of the suffering of the church triumphant will be complete (cf Revelation 21:4). Then we shall be like Him (1 John 3:2). In Him, Doc |
||||||
4 | The Church Visible and Invisible | Acts 12:1 | EdB | 243782 | ||
Rather than talk visible and invisible let us use the terms physical and spiritual as nothing is invisible to God or to the Holy Spirit that dwells within each Christian My concern is the physical church and the spiritual church has allowed itself to associate with sin. 2 Cor. 6:14-17. Far too often our desire to maintain a physical church deceives the spiritual church into allowing compromise into it. This should never happen. The world mocks the church today because of what it sees within the physical church. It sees compromise and all forms of hypocrisy and sin. The question is, is it possible for any of us to step into and out of this sinful union and then truthfully declare we are unaffected by that association? 2 Cor. 6:14-17 clearly states that we can’t. First Timothy chapter 3 and Titus 1:7-9 give us the qualifications for church leadership, I believe any and all violations of these qualifiers band that person from being a teacher or leader within the church, no exceptions. Their pontifications should not be received nor given any attention. To do so requires us to wink at their sin and puts us squarely in the conviction of 2 Cor 6:14-17. Yes the church is to pull sinner from the muck and mire of sin but no where is it remotely suggested that church gets into that muck and mire. To do so is the definition of dysfunctional and this is exactly how the world sees the physical church today as being dysfunctional and floundering like the rest of humanity. We say there is hope in Christ but the world sees little hope in the physical church. We can declare the spiritual church is pure but is it? In light of scripture association with sin will effect the spiritual church as well. Enough talk of all things great and small it is time the church returns to the place it was called, to holiness. 1 Thess 4:7, Heb 12:14, 2 Cor. 7:1. |
||||||
5 | The Church Visible and Invisible | Acts 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 243785 | ||
Dear Ed, Nothing that is spiritual is visible; so your terminology of physical/spiritual is perfectly coincident with Reformed theology. The world is utterly dull to any spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14); nonetheless, they appear to me to have a hypersensitivity to sin! I think they gain that ability from the spirit of the age. When we hear them put their finger on hypocrisy (as you used for an example), then we can be sure that it may very well be something for which we ought to be concerned. We shall always have the trares and the goats in our midst until the perousia of Christ. Thus our efforts individually, congregationally, and liturgically -- by the laity as well as the clergy -- is to make the physical church look as much as possible as the spiritual church. The promise that we will one day be like Him is an awesome promise of the final cleansing of the church. Yes, the spiritual church is pure... again, we have the many promises that we will be like Him (1 John 3:2). When we die, our sanctification will sky rocket, such that we will be purified by the consummation of redemption! For the Reformed, we rejoice that God always fulfills His promises. We even speak of hope as "a confident expectation" not a wistful wish. So I agree entirely... let us persevere in walking in those things that God has accomplished. What a joy that we can do so, for He has already done it. Consequently, we ought to make every effort to walk in Him! "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14:21) Thank you for sharing concerning the doctrine that you hold. It is informative and helpful. In Him, Doc |
||||||