Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 524 | ||
Is there no volition? My friend, does coming to Christ make us devoid of all will and self? Is the only reason I believe because the Spirit makes me? The only reason I obey is because I am coerced? The only reason I fellowship is because it is the only path set before me? It is my opinion that we still have a will, and that matching our will with God's will is pleasing to Him. Certainly the Holy Spirit is the Helper and Comforter, but I do not think He is the Puppetmaster. I know that works that glorify me are dead, but my obedience glorifies God. When we, of our own free will, choose to depart from sin and serve Jesus (with help and leading of the Holy Spirit), heaven rejoices. The reason I cannot accept unconditional election and the total depravity of man is that it leads to sin being a sign of non-election. If someone sins, it must be because he was not truly chosen. This is an extremely arrogant stance for those who are convinced of their own election. Is it possible they cannot see their own sin? Also, if we start weeding out all who have sinned as being non-elect, heaven will be a very lonely place. Finally, if there is no post-salvation grace, who will be saved? I believe that Jesus is the Author and Perfector of our faith. Our initial faith was a gift from God according to His grace, we can claim no credit. However, I also believe that we participate in some (admittedly small) way afterward, the as a pilgrim. James makes this all clear. He was used to dealing with legalistic Jews who had mapped out a path to God in the flesh. Faith and works are both essential. | ||||||
2 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | kalos | 535 | ||
I'm not sure what my answer regarding the fruit of the Spirit has to do with the doctrine of election. I fail to see the connection. . . . Of course man has limited free will. Believing on Christ (commiting oneself to Him) for salvation most definitely involves an act of the will on the part of the individual. . . . As far as unconditional election, I do not believe I mentioned any such thing in my answer re John 15:4. . . . I know of no one who believes that if someone sins it is because he was not truly chosen. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, including the elect, who exist, regardless of how one defines election. . . . "Is it possible the elect cannot see their own sin?" No, because no one can be saved unless and until he sees his own sin. . . . "Post-election grace" is a term I am not familiar with. . . . Yes, I agree with you that obedience has something to do with it. Our obedience is an evidence of genuine saving faith. However, obedience is the result, not the cause, of our salvation. . . . Works are not essential to salvation. Rom 3:28 NIV "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." See also Eph 2:8-9. Properly understood, James and Romans do NOT contradict each other. However, proper understanding of the Scriptures does not come from a casual reading or dogmatic interpretation of them. . . . Works are not essential to salvation -- they are the result of salvation and evidence of genuine saving faith. "Not of works lest any man should boast." This remains true no matter what Scriptures or human reasoning one uses to contradict it. |
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3 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 562 | ||
"...work out your salvation with fear and trembling;" PHI 2:12 "...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us," HEB 12:1. Dear fellow, these are not intellectual exercises or academic processes. Let me explain: The original question was 'How do you abide in Christ?' (not, "what is the theory behind abiding?") My answer was that various willing actions of faith (submitting to the commands of Christ) would produce (sorry, bear) fruit. Your note indicated that faith, obedience, fellowship and sharing the gospel were fruit of the Holy Spirit, that we had no volition in the matter. Your above answer makes it clear that you believe salvation has little to do with life on earth. All our works are only a result of God's election. We indeed become merely puppets. This sounds so much like 'karma' that it is eerie. Are we simply products of the 'fate' that God decided. In the same way we credit Adam with willful sin (or was he just a tool to bring sin to mankind), give us all a little credit for abstaining from sin after we come to know Jesus (post-salvation grace and works). Apparently, 'proper understanding" of James is that he was wrong, works are not essential. I keep talking about how to serve Jesus here, now, in our present state, in the world we now occupy, and you keep answering in nebulous, prehistoric, and eschatological terminology, quoting dead people that agree with your doctrinal leanings. "To abide in Christ...is to have no known sin unjudged and unconfessed..." Does this mean that if you don't know it, it's not sin? Do you actually know anyone who has correctly judged and confessed every one of his sins? I haven't yet met such a person (except maybe in his own mind). Again, God initiated our walk in Christ by sending the gift of faith, but desires that we choose to continue that walk from our volition. He sent His Spirit to help us, and comfort us, and encourage us. Thank You, Jesus! | ||||||
4 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | kalos | 566 | ||
The Bible does indeed say "...work OUT (emphasis mine) your salvation." However, it does not say: "...work FOR your salvation." ...Re Heb 12:1, we don't win our salvation in a race. ...I thank you for condescending to explain things to this dear fellow. My previous reply answered the question 'How do you abide in Christ?' (not what is someone's pet theory for or against the doctrine of election?) You wrote: "Your note indicated that faith, obedience, etc. were fruit of the Holy Spirit, that we had no volition in the matter." Apparently, that's what you inferred, not what I indicated. ...Thank you for telling me what I believe. If I need further clarification on what I believe, I'll be sure to ask you. ...Why do you insist that I said our works are only a result of God's election? I never used the word or the concept of election with regard to works. What I said was good works are evidence of genuine saving faith. Good works are the result, not the cause, of our salvation. When did I EVER mention good works in relation to the word election????? You want "a little credit for abstaining from sin . . ."? I think not. If one makes the choice to abstain from sin after coming to know Jesus, what credit is that to him? The only reason a believer would have the ABILITY to abstain from sin is because of the shed blood of Jesus and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Credit for us? It is not apparent to me that James was wrong. What I said was "James and Romans do NOT contradict each other." It would be idiotic for anyone to assert that one portion of inspired Scripture was "wrong" and another was "right." We may not agree with each other, but I'm no idiot. Niether are you, for I can tell that you have a keen, inquiring mind. I mean that sincerely. I don't ridicule your questions and answers. Why do you ridicule mine by calling them "nebulous, prehistoric, and eschatological terminology"? If one cannot quote "dead people," then let's stop quoting Moses, Isaiah, Peter, James, John, Paul, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Dr. Scofield, Andrew Murray, Oswald Chambers, etc. Or I could quote a certain living author that has studied the Bible 30 hours a week for 30 years in the original languages. Such study does not involve intellectual exercises or word games. Nor is it about gaining Bible knowledge so that one can win arguments. Is there not the slightest possibility that he may, just may, know a little more about the Bible than MOST professing Christians and churchgoers? ...You say: "Does that mean that if you don't know it, it's not sin?" If ignorance were a sin, then most of us would be without hope. You say: "...God...desires that we choose to continue that walk from our volition." That is correct. I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, God did send His Spirit to help us, comfort us, and encourage us. He also commands us to be "filled with the Spirit." Filled means controlled and empowered by. (Look it up in Vine's Expository Dictionary or any Greek word study, unless of course Vine is regarded as just another ignorant heretic.) So God commands us to be controlled and empowered by the Spirit. Hopefully replies to this message (if any) will focus not on what I did not say or what I meant. Hopefully they will focus on what I SAID. Likewise, we know what the Bible means BY what it says. |
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5 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 579 | ||
Dear fellow, Please understand that I mean dear, and I mean fellow. I am in no way being condescending. I don't know your name, your gender, your age, or your place of domicile. I know you only as a Christian. You are apparently well-read and fervent in your faith in Christ Jesus. I injected irony into my comments, and I did say, "...you believe...," which was inappropriate. You are correct in stating that you never mentioned the word election. For these I humbly apologize. This forum is for the benefit of all who read, of the many-membered body of Christ. It seems to me that your answers tend to be more theological or philosophical. I can see that you have spent a great deal of time studying the Bible and the works of others (dead and alive) that dedicated themselves to the study of the Bible. Though I also study, my calling leads me to be more concerned with the application of faith in everyday terms dealing with common folk. Very few people understand (or care) about how Hebrew and Greek applies to them. Few people really grasp the difference between 'produce' and 'bear' fruit. Even I know that my good works do not purchase my salvation, and I think that anybody who has come to a personal relationship with Jesus understands this. "Credit for us?"(scoff) Yes, I think we do participate in the battle against sin. I do understand that "all praise is God's," but we also enter the fray. Maybe you live in an environment with little temptation or trial. Where I live there are less than 1 percent professing Christians. Theoretical faith has little use. When someone asks me, "How do I abide in Christ?" I have to give them some practical direction, not a theological discourse. Winning arguments doesn't win souls here. It only further alienates those who are already convinced that all Christian are pedantic and arrogant. Please understand my point of view, and I will try to reciprocate. Back to this forum, I am under the impression that many who participate are searching for practical means of serving God. I hope be share with them, giving and receiving as we work out our salvation. Peace to you, in Jesus' name. |
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6 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | kalos | 583 | ||
Thank you for a terrific note. Now I feel I understand better where you are coming from. Your letter helps me to better see the world in which you live and your practical concerns. Forgive me if I have offended you. In your current note you express genuine concern for the body of Christ as well as the unsaved. I must agree with your observations on where the average person is at and which approaches to evangelism are appropriate and which are not. I seem to have completely misunderstood you and didn't see your admirable spirit and attitude. This is not idle flattery on my part. I am not a flatterer. You deserve credit for a keen mind and a good heart. I will be the first to admit an incorrect perception of you. Thank you again for your current note to me. I will keep it and treasure it. You sound like a person I'd like to be friends with. God bless you richly. As far as the desire to serve, obey and honor God with a clean and godly life, I agree with you 100 percent and admire your stand for right living and pleasing God. From now on, I'll be looking for your questions and notes with great interest. | ||||||
7 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 948 | ||
Dear JVH0212, This week has been great for me because of your note. The reason is that the Spirit led me to repentance and peace through our little discussion. I believe that the Lord used you to help me, and I thank Him for you. Though I still disagree on some points here and there, I am sure that our discussing them like Christians is pleasing to God. I, too, look forward to 'talk about Jesus' with you and the esteemed colleagues involved in this forum. In Christ Jesus, charis | ||||||
8 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | kalos | 953 | ||
Received and read your note, to which this is a reply. We can agree to disagree. Let us agree on the essential doctrines of the historic Christian faith. Other matters, while not unimportant, are secondary and we need not break fellowship because of a disagreement over them. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on everything. I would be astonished if anyone did. Isn't this the greatest website? I'm looking forward to many inspiring and stimulating discussions at this site with you and the other members. . . . Your brother in Christ, JVH0212 . . . (Not the name on my birth certificate. (smile)) |
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9 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 978 | ||
Dear friend, as a seeker of Truth, I cannot 'agree to disagree.' because this would be a disservice to us both. However, I will promise to you that, because of my great respect for you, your faith, your honesty, and your desire for Truth (in Jesus), I won't allow any disagreement to hinder our continued fellowship. (I have some interesting questions about that in the future) Some of my best friends, mentors, and students are those that I share some disagreement. The key word is share. I fellowship with them in Jesus' name! After all, "...let God be found true, though every man be found a liar..." Romans 3:4 I will always pray that my inadequacies will be shown to me through God's servants, and also that I might serve God by (by grace) portraying truth. Indeed, continued fellowship and communication will glorify the Lord in our midst. In Christ Jesus. |
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10 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | kalos | 1009 | ||
Good morning, Charis! . . . Likewise because of my respect for you, I too will not allow a disagreement to come between us. I doubt that there is one person in my church who would agree with me on every point of doctrine. But, regardless, I sure love and appreciate those folks. . . . The verse you quoted, Rom 3:4, is one of my all-time favorites. Maybe it should be a motto for this forum. . . . Continued fellowship with each other is also my desire, as well as yours. Good to hear from you. Take care. . . . Sincerely, John (which IS the name on my birth certificate). |
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11 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | charis | 1015 | ||
Good night, my dear fellow, from the land of the rising sun. Amen! to your note. Iesu Kirisuto no na ni yori (in the name of Christ Jesus), Randell | ||||||