Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | JCrichton | 137583 | ||
Part 2 of 2 And what about the cults of Satan… are they too not bound by your statement? If we do nothing but God’s Will and many of us commit our lives to wicked and unrighteous acts, is God not guilty, by association, of such wickedness and unrighteousness? For your statement to be correct then my latter supposition must also be correct! But as Christ said: A sound tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a rotten tree bear good fruit. (Matthew 7:18) This is why I suggest that you rethink your position. Yahweh is a God of order not disorder; a God of Mercy and Love not deception and cruelty! “He leads us into temptation or unto His Son for salvation.” This almost sounds correct… the problem is that it denies Scripture: So in future, House of Israel, I shall judge each of you by what that person does--declares the Lord Yahweh. Repent, renounce all your crimes, avoid all occasions for guilt. Shake off all the crimes you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why die, House of Israel? I take no pleasure in the death of anyone--declares the Lord Yahweh--so repent and live!' (Ezekiel 18:30-32--compare with Isaiah 1:18-20) God has not changed! We, both Jews and Greeks (Gentiles) are the “House of Israel” which is commanded to repent and live! God is not leading some to impotence and futility! God leads us all to Christ! The problem lies in that not all of us believe! Not all of us humble ourselves to God’s Will! “Jesus was quite clear about the Father drawing us to Himself.” You are correct! But this does not mean that God draws to Jesus only those who are to be saved… this means that God draws to Jesus all who believe… those who believe will not be rejected by Jesus since they have learned from the Father and have come to Him! (Romans 5:6-20) And though I agree with you that there is a duality of existence within us (flesh and spirit), God does not control either… we are allowed to choose to obey and abide in Him or disobey and reject Him. Jesus call us to abide in Him (John 15:5-6) because only by abiding in Him do we have Life… but when people decide not to abide in Him, Jesus does not coerce their allegiance nor does He smite them. (John 6:53-69; Luke 9:51-56; 1 John 2:18-28; 2 Peter 3:17-18) Jesus prayed to the Father for those whom the Father had given to Him… does that demonstrate that those in the spirit are under God’s control? Quite the opposite! Jesus prays for those that are His (both the disciples and those that would come to believe through their preaching and teaching! He prayed specially for Simon as Satan was asking for special privileges to assault him (Luke 22:31-32); and though Peter receive the delegation of keeping the others united (Luke 22:32; John 21:15-17), Peter ran with the rest of them when Jesus was arrested… to be under God’s protection does not mean to lose our will to choose to serve God or to disobey God! Ultimately, our wills must be submitted to God’s Will or we will perish! But God will not force His Will upon us nor to lead us to condemnation--otherwise He would be contradicting His own Word (Ezekiel 18:30-32; Isaiah 1:18-20; Luke 9:56) “There will be a second resurrection where everyone will be given the knowledge of Jesus and that will be their opportunity.” Sorry… there are no second opportunities but Judgment and a second death! (Revelation 20:4-15) We are called to believe and be saved… not to reject Christ and await one more “chance!” (Romans 3:21-26; John 1:10-13; 3:17-21) God Bless! Angel |
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2 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | stevewill | 137753 | ||
Hello Angel, Can Satan temp us without God’s permission? Is Satan in control of this earth or God? Satan did not tempt Jesus without God’s permission. Jesus was lead by the Holy Spirit to be tempted by Satan. Satan cannot do anything without God’s permission. The book of Job makes that quite clear. In the first chapter of Job, God initiated the conversation concerning Job. Even Satan admitted that God blessed the work of Job’s hands. All that Job had was because God blessed Job and provided it to Job. Then Satan went on to tell God to put forth thy hand and touch all he has and he will curse you. Notice carefully what Satan said, put forth thy hand and touch all he has. Satan can’t touch all that Job has and destroy it. God must put forth His hand to destroy it. Then the Lord said to Satan, behold all that he has is in your power. God turned over to Satan the ability to temp Job by taking away all he had. Satan cannot do to Job more than what God gave him permission to do. Satan can only follow God’s directing and instructions. God controls Satan. Now Satan goes forth and causes all these terrible things to happen to Job by putting in the minds of those who committed those acts to do them. Satan was given permission by God to use all the people involved to do terrible things to Job. Satan directed those people to act. In Job chapter 2 Satan comes to God the second time. God initiated the conversation concerning Job. Verse 3 tells us that Job was lead into temptation by God. “Although you moved me against him to destroy him without cause.” God was moved into destroying all Job had. Did God do the destroying, absolutely not. Satan did the destroying by using people to carry out God’s wishes. God even admitted it was without cause but God did it anyway in order to test Job’s integrity. This is the relationship between God and Satan. Satan accuses us before God and God directs Satan how to temp us in order to test our integrity. God leads us into temptation by using Satan to cause the acts through other people that lead up to our temptation. God controls Satan. Satan cannot do what God has not given him permission to do. In verse 10 even Job admitted that good and evil come from the hand of God. To say that we are not lead into temptation by God is to admit that Satan is in control of our lives and not God, Satan is in control of this world and not God. I believe God is in control of this world and everything that happens in it. Is God controlling us like puppets, absolutely not. God provides the circumstances through Satan and we must decide to give in to the temptation or to not give in. I believe that is how God works with all of us. Thanks again for your reply. I might be trying to cover to many areas at once. I would like to narrow our discussions to one or two topics and search the scriptures to prove our point. Steve |
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3 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | JCrichton | 137814 | ||
"I would like to narrow our discussions to one or two topics and search the scriptures to prove our point." Hi, Steve! I think that your suggestion is a point of excellence! In-depth study of Scripture can yield much... Though I must still disagree with the conclusions you've drawn on God's complete control of existence: "In verse 10 even Job admitted that good and evil come from the hand of God." From your reasoning we must all believe that Peter is Satan since it is Scripturally stated by Jesus: But he turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle in my path, because you are thinking not as God thinks but as human beings do.' (Matthew 16:23) Clearly, Jesus does not confuse Peter with Satan... it is simply a matter of language: Peter is holding on to human intellect and thinks that by protecting Jesus from an untimely end he is serving His Lord! Jesus admonishes his lack of understanding and warns him that he is behaving not according to God but according to Satan! Again, Scripture supports the notion that Yahweh lied to Adam and Eve and that the Ancient Serpent told them the truth! (Genesis 3:1-16; and 5:5) The truth is that Adam did die and he took all of us with him! Yet, if we use only the Scripture cited (Genesis 3:1-16 and 5:5) we can come to the wrong conclusion that God lied and that Satan told the truth--we know from Jesus that Satan is a liar, the fathe of all lies; and we know from God's Word that He is Truth! God Bless! Angel |
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4 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | stevewill | 137969 | ||
Hello Angel, Thanks again for your reply. I was trying to narrow our discussion to one point and that is does God lead us into temptation. The scriptures in Job clearly say that He does through Satan. If you would like to comment on the one subject, “Does God lead us into temptation” and provide scriptures that support your position I would like to hear from you. I’m sorry but I fail to see where Jesus calling Peter Satan has anything to do with our discussion. When you look at Jesus further discussions about Peter and Satan in Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you[1] as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Satan asked to sift Peter. Ask who? God. Satan asks God to sift all of us. God either gives his permission or tells Satan no. This is the relationship between God and Satan. Satan asks who to temp and God gives His permission. God does not do the tempting, Satan does with God’s permission. Notice what Jesus did when Satan asked God to tempt Peter, “But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.” Jesus had to pray for Peter’s faith. This is where we come in when God allows Satan to tempt us, we decide to give in to the temptation or to say no to Satan. That is the part we play. We are in control of the situation when we are tempted by Satan. We have the choice of resisting, as the scripture says, or giving in to it. James 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. How does God lead us into temptation? By giving permission to Satan to tempt us. God has the control. Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when eat of it you will surely die." Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." From looking at the scriptures you cited in genesis I believe that God told them that they would die if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They ate of the fruit and they died. Satan told a lie by saying they would not surely die. When you read those scriptures, how can anyone reach a conclusion that God lied? I can’t understand the point you are making. Please notice the last part of Satan’s statement, “Knowing good and evil.” Up till that time Adam and Eve only knew the goodness of God. After their temptation by Satan, similar to how Satan tempted Job and Jesus, they knew evil. Evil comes from Satan but with God’s directing as shown in the book of Job. God tried to protect them from evil by telling them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but they gave in to the temptation and became knowledgeable of evil. And with that knowledge came death. Just like we today give in to the temptations of Satan. One last point, are you saying that you do not believe the scripture in Job2:10 that says good and evil come from the hand of God. After the example given to us in the book of Job can you say that Satan is in control of all the evil and not God. You are saying that Satan acts on his own and is in control of this earth and not God? God’s will be done. Steve |
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5 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | JCrichton | 138022 | ||
Hi, Steve! We have two very distinct perspective of looking at God and Scripture... you ask me to reply to your conception that God leads us to temptation and that God creates evil... I have! I have offered one example of Scripture after another... you simply just do not see it! If you go back to my very first post on this particular thread and read through the final one (previous to this reply) you will find that my statements are based on Scripture... I will breakdown for you the passage on Peter being called Satan: In his quintessential spontaneity Peter jumps in on Jesus' remark and he replies not with words conforming to God's Will but words, though with good intentions, in his finite human understanding--words that would serve Satan's purpose rather than God's... Jesus admonishes Peter and He calls him Satan! This of course is Scriptural... not only that but they are Jesus' own words! The fact that Peter is called Satan by Jesus in this particular Scriptural passage does not mean that Peter is Satan or that Jesus has somehow mistaken Peter for Satan... My attempt was to prove to you that Scripture does have a particular language which can be confusing if taken out of context or if interpreted apart from the all other Scriptural text. I cannot make any simpler... I cannot offer any enlightenment aside from Scripture... Since you will not see beyond your position, and I will not be able to offer any Scripture that will not be ignore or misinterpreted, I see no point in a continuance of this thread. God Bless! Angel |
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6 | Thy will be done, statement or fact? | Matt 6:9 | stevewill | 138036 | ||
Hello Angel, Your right, I do not see how you can come to the conclusions you have with the scriptures you have used to prove your point. And you will not see how I came to the conclusions I came to with the scriptures I used. God must deal with both of us I'm afraid in His own way. Believe me when I say a appreciate your replies. The Bible is a source of never ending discovery and I believe all questions can be answered within its covers. God's will be done. Steve |
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