Results 1 - 9 of 9
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | DocTrinsograce | 164396 | ||
"If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him 'unless the Father who sent me draws him' (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven' (Matthew 16:17), and as the Apostle says, 'No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit' (1 Corinthians 12:3)." --Canons of the Council of Orange 529 AD (Canon 8) | ||||||
2 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | mark d seyler | 164413 | ||
Hi Doc, I don't know who was on the Council of Orange, but since you are presenting this material, I shall ask you. Without either agreeing or disagreeing with the statements made by this council, I would simply like to ask you, do you believe that the Father draws all men to Jesus? Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||
3 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | DocTrinsograce | 164426 | ||
Dear Mark, The Council of Orange was an ecumenical council -- back when all the churches would still come together to agree on things. The ICL net puts it this way: "The Council of Orange was an outgrowth of the controversy between Augustine and Pelagius. This controversy had to do with degree to which a human being is responsible for his or her own salvation, and the role of the grace of God in bringing about salvation. The Pelagians held that human beings are born in a state of innocence, i.e., that there is no such thing as a sinful nature or original sin. "As a result of this view, they held that a state of sinless perfection was achievable in this life. The Council of Orange dealt with the Semi-Pelagian doctrine that the human race, though fallen and possessed of a sinful nature, is still 'good' enough to able to lay hold of the grace of God through an act of unredeemed human will." You can find further information on this council Thank you for your interest in my beliefs. I believe in "Effectual Calling." As the old divines put it, "Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, He is pleased in His appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by His almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace. (Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4)" --1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith (Chapter 10, paragraph 1) As our Lord put it, "Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14) In Him, Doc |
||||||
4 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | mark d seyler | 164440 | ||
Hi Doc, I, for one, and I think you may agree ;-) believe that I will not achieve sinless perfection while in this body. The question I am asking you is this: Do you believe that God invites all to be saved? Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||
5 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | DocTrinsograce | 164454 | ||
Dear Mark, I thought I answered that. :-) "Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14) Of the all, many are called, of the called, few are chosen. I do not see how all men could be invited to be saved since some men die without hearing the Gospel. Consequently, there is no such thing as a "universal invitation." I believe, however, that anyone who hears the Gospel is invited -- nay, commanded! -- by God to believe. "But how are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? ...But they have not all obeyed the gospel..." (Romans 10:14, 16a) In Him, Doc |
||||||
6 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | mark d seyler | 164455 | ||
Hi Doc, I'm sorry, I didn't understand your answer before. So you would say that the person who has not heard the Gospel has therefore no opportunity to receive salvation? If I may, how do you understand this scripture: Titus 2:11 "For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men," (LITV) Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||
7 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | DocTrinsograce | 164457 | ||
Dear Mark, You asked, "So you would say that the person who has not heard the Gospel has therefore no opportunity to receive salvation?" All I can say is what Scripture says, excuse me for repeating my answer: "But how are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?" (Romans 10:14 ESV) The missionary drive to proclaim the Gospel to all men is rooted in a love of His flock. If we love Christ, we cannot do otherwise than to love His own. You asked about my understanding of Titus 2:11. The whole sentence from that passage reads, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession who are zealous for good works." (Titus 2:11-14 ESV) Given the context wherein Paul identifies a variety of people (see the preceding verses 2 through 9), as well as the primary participle "For," he necessarily means all classes of people -- even servants and Gentiles. The same phrase "all people" is used in Titus 3:2. There, expanding on the former argument, Titus is encouraged to teach his congregation to show meekness to all people, since those who comprise "a people for His own possession" are drawn from all classes. This was an utterly novel concept in a world in which class distinctions defined people's worth along with how they interacted with each other. In Him, Doc |
||||||
8 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | mark d seyler | 164482 | ||
Hi Doc, Thank you for your patience with me. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the only ones who can be saved are those to whom the gospel has been preached, and that the gospel has been preached to, not in fact "all men", but "all 'classes of' men". Is that correct? Do you think that a human preacher is required for the preaching of the Gospel? I am thinking of Romans 1, where Paul writes: Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Doesn't this say that mankind can all learn that is required to be responsible before God from observing His creation? If they "are without excuse" because of what they have seen in creation, does that not mean that creation contains an adequate revelation of God for God to be knowable, and for mankind to know what it must do? What are your thoughts? Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||
9 | Canon 8 Council of Orange | Matt 16:17 | DocTrinsograce | 164496 | ||
Dear Mark, You wrote, "...you are saying that the only ones who can be saved are those to whom the gospel has been preached..." No, I didn't mean to say that. The receiving of the Gospel message is the normal way in which men are saved. At the moment, I can think of one Biblical exception. Where there is one exception there might be others. However, I wouldn't want to base a doctrine on that single exception. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6 ESV) "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 ESV) You wrote, "...that the gospel has been preached to, not in fact 'all men', but "all 'classes of men'." No, I did not say that either. Look back at my exposition on Paul's epistle to Titus. I did state, however, that the Gospel cannot have been preached to all men everywhere. You asked, "Do you think that a human preacher is required for the preaching of the Gospel?" No, because faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The Word of God can be "heard" in audible, written, telegraphed, signed, or semaphored form. :-) Romans 1 through 3 is speaking about the universality of guilt. No man can offer an excuse to leave himself innocent. Best I can do for now... lunch time is over and people keep coming into my office asking questions. :-) In Him, Doc |
||||||