Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | compudex | 111021 | ||
When do we say 'No!" to the small but steady corruption to the Word of God? In grammar when a sentence is written with pronouns in the third person it is completely legal to replace those pronouns with their respective proper personal pronouns. Example: Tom Brown is a very tall man. Then Jim said, "Is he the one playing center position on the basketball team?" Can also be written:(legally replacing the pronoun with its respective proper personal pronoun) Tom Brown is a very tall man. Then Jim said, "Is Tom Brown the one playing center position on the basketball team?" It is by context that the men in the synagogue did NOT know that Jesus was the Son of God in the following verses: (Mat 13:54 KJV) And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? (Mat 13:55 KJV) Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (Mat 13:56 KJV) And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? (Mat 13:57 KJV) And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. (Mat 13:58 KJV) And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Now take into consideration the following translation from the NASB: (Mat 13:54 NASB) He came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? (Mat 13:55 NASB) "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? (Mat 13:56 NASB) "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" (Mat 13:57 NASB) And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." (Mat 13:58 NASB) And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief. When the NASB capitalized some of the pronouns, changing "his mother", "his brothers" and "his sisters" to "His mother", "His brothers" and "His sisters" thus giving the pronouns the connotation of divinity we should be able to replace the pronouns with their respective proper personal pronoun. This would give us the following translation for Mat 13:55, 56: "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not the Son of God's mother called Mary, and the Son of God's brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And the Son of God's sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" By capitalizing these pronouns it compromises the true meaning of these verses. It changes the aspect that the men of the synagogue DID know who it was teaching them. And since the NASB also inserted quote marks even makes the corruption worse by then saying that these were the exact words of the man speaking them. If you are going to quote a man, you must quote the man. Grammatically, it is illegal to do otherwise. And in today's world you could get sued for doing so. This type of translation corrupts the very meaning of the context of these verses. Ascribing divinity to a quote when it was not intended. Do we care about these minor little things that will eventually become the norm? Or should we just stand by and say nothing? No malice is intended and any answers to this should also bare this in mind. compudex |
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2 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | kalos | 111029 | ||
"...Hebrew has no such thing as upper and lower case, and the oldest Greek manuscripts were all upper case." From the website of the World English Bible (WEB): "The WEB doesn't capitalize pronouns pertaining to God. This is similar to the NRSV and NIV, and the same as the original ASV of 1901. Note that this is an English style decision, *because Hebrew has no such thing as upper and lower case, and the oldest Greek manuscripts were all upper case*. I kind of prefer the approach of the KJV, NKJV, and NASB of capitalizing these pronouns, because I write that way most of the time and because it is a way of offering greater honor to God. I admit that it is kind of a throw-back to the Olde English practice of capitalizing pronouns referring to the king. This is archaic, because we don't capitalize pronouns that refer to our president. "It is also true that choosing to capitalize pronouns relating to God causes some difficulties in translating the coronation psalms, where the psalm was initially written for the coronation of an earthly king, but which also can equally well be sung or recited to the praise of the King of Kings. *Capitalizing pronouns relating to God also makes for some strange reading* where people were addressing Jesus with anything but respect. In any case, in the presence of good arguments both ways, we have decided *to leave these as they were in the ASV 1901 (which also gives us fewer opportunities to make mistakes*)." (emphasis added) __________ (http://ebible.org/bible/web/webfaq.htm) This FAQ is maintained by Michael Paul Johnson. |
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3 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | Just Read Mark | 111034 | ||
Thanks, kalos. That is very helpful to me. Was I right that punctuation is also very hard to deal with from the Greek? I heard that the sentences run together, so determinng where each thought ends is a delicate matter. JRM. |
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4 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | kalos | 111035 | ||
I'm not sure, but I think there is no puncuation at all in the Greek. Morant61 and others can provide accurate information on this. --kalos |
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5 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | compudex | 111038 | ||
Kalos, I am all for caps, but when you capitalize a quotation that was not directed toward diety, it is wrong. Look at what the Amplified Bible(AB) does to: Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's Son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? (AB)shows diety applied to the carpenter by capitalizing "Son" because "son" is used here as the possesive object. All I would like is for people reading the Scriptures to realize that one has to be aware of some of these variances. compudex |
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6 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | Morant61 | 111040 | ||
Greetings Compudex! I would agree! My general practice to to capitalize all pronouns refering to God expect when those pronouns are contained in direct or indirect quotes. In those cases, I try to let the context guide me. So, in the case of the Jewish leaders for instance, I would only use lower case letters. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | Ray | 111043 | ||
Hi Tim, The passage in quotation marks that you are talking about, Matthew 13:54 is "Where did this man [see NKJ, Man] get this wisdom, and these miraculous powers?" I think that every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a pencil has to decide whether the Greek, if it could use capitalization, would interpret it as "this one" or "this One". Since this is the word of God, I think that the correct rendering is "this One". He knows who He is. 1) Matthew 21:9-11 gives us a challenge in interpretation. That talks about the Son of David. He enters Jerusalem and all the city says, "Who is this?" And the multitudes were saying, "This is the prophet, Jesus." 2) Are we to judge the inner thoughts of others also? Comparing Matthew 12:24 with Luke 11:15-17, do we judge their thoughts to determine whether "He" should be counted in Luke 11:15? We have to determine our own thoughts alone so that we do not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and say that His is an evil spirit. From the heart, Ray |
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8 | When is it time to say no? | Matt 13:55 | Morant61 | 111051 | ||
Greetings Ray! I think we have discussed this before, if I remember correctly. But, since there isn't capitalization in the Greek, when we do captialize we are adding an element of interpretation to the text. So, I have no problem with capitalizing pronouns which clear refer to the Deity of Christ. However, I don't personally capitalize the pronouns of unbelievers since they don't really understand who He is. Either way, it is a judgement call. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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