Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Easy to deny Christ? | Matt 10:33 | charis | 31388 | ||
Dear Saints, I ask this question fully understanding the controversy, but nonetheless interested in the answer to this question: How 'easy' is it to deny Christ once we know him? Is it a common occurence? I well know that a good 'electionist' (;-)) would say that anyone that knew Christ could never deny Him, therfore all who deny Christ never really knew Him. I find this too pat, almost contrived. The Bible DOES seem to give some examples of those that denied Christ, after knowing Him, to their destruction. (but I have NEVER seen anything that hints at saved-lost-saved-lost... etc.) I also know that a good 'freewiller' (;-)) must say that we have the free-will to accept Jesus, and we can just a easily deny (reject) Him. I cannot accept this, as it gives God no glory as the Author (and Finisher) of our faith. But I DO see that the Scriptures they reference have merit. I guess I see both stances as too absolute, too rigid. Our God is a God of 'case by case,' personal judgement of each individual. He is not bound by a human interpretation of His laws. His ways are not ours. He spoke that adultery and murder are capital offences, then spared King David. My point is that though a man may deny Christ and 'lose' salvation (Tim, I hate that word, too!), it can't be very easy to do, or we would all be guilty of denying Christ because we willfully reject His commandments (sin). Strong's on 'deny' - 720 arneomai ar-neh'-om-ahee perhaps from 1 (as a negative particle) and the middle voice of 4483; to contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate:--deny, refuse. This speaks to me of a calculated, purposeful act of will against God, knowing who He is. I honestly doubt that many Christians could accomplish this. But I cannot discount the possibility! Through deception, depression, or oppression, a person of faith COULD turn against Christ. I don't believe it happens often, and I am confident that those committed to a local church, in the care of a good shepherd, and walking in the Holy Spirit are kept from this kind of apostacy. Now I know that those with 'polar' positions on this subject feel obligated to 'deny' my central position, but humor me. (and answer the question) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | Easy to deny Christ? | Matt 10:33 | Hank | 31419 | ||
Charis, greetings from across the pond! Two little observations I have, neither very profound, on this subject of denial of Christ and the resultant "loss" of one's salvation. First I would ask, What do we mean when we talk about denying Christ? Does this entail some sort of formal announcement or, at least, a verbal denial, such as the one Peter repeated three times -- or can it be something else in lieu of verbal denial? For example, can Christ be denied by deeds that we do that we know are sinful, e.g., adultery, lying, cheating, gossiping -- the list is virtually inexhaustible. Are there degrees of denial and, if so, how do we go about measuring their intensity, and how "intense" must they be to cut us off from the saving power of God's grace?..... And what, after all, is God's grace and what can we do to earn it in the first place or lose it in the second? Is it, indeed, dependent at all on anything that human beings did, do, or can do to curry favor with God? Is faith in Christ's ability to save from sin enough, or must we make it our business to continue to "do" something -- like daily repentence of our sins -- to keep Christ's saving power plugged in and working? Finally, when we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, isn't it true that we must -- must, I say -- TRUST the Lord Jesus Christ to save us and keep us saved? If this be so, then what role do our future actions play in the equation: what can we ourselves DO after salvation to KEEP OURSELVES saved, or what can we ourselves DO after salvation to GET OURSELVES unsaved? I submit that we can do no more to keep ourselves saved than we can do to save ourselves in the first place. To me, trusting in Christ means trusting in Christ. Period. We must get it through our heads and let it sink in our hearts that salvation is a gift of God, that our works are meaningless, and thus we must take the things we do or don't do out of the picture. We are saved unto good works but most certainly not by any of them. Well, Charis, I'm not preaching to you -- I don't preach to preachers or choirs :-), but these were some random thoughts which I fear are expressed all too randomly, but if they serve to goad anyone into thinking about what belief and trust in Christ really is, how encompassing grace is, and how futile our efforts to gain salvation really are -- if they do any of these things, they have served their purpose. And grace upon grace to you, my friend. Soli Deo Gloria! --Hank | ||||||
3 | Easy to deny Christ? | Matt 10:33 | charis | 31628 | ||
Dear Hank, Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus! My dear fellow in Christ, I will accept your 'random thoughts' anytime! Also, you can preach to the choir, as we all need to hear the Gospel, even 'after the fact' of salvation. :-) I do agree with you that the Holy Spirit places trust (in Him to our salvation) in our hearts, personally. And perhaps this trust extends to family, church fellows and even acquaintances attending other churches. However, I have noticed that we sometime do NOT have this same trust (in Him to salvation) concerning others outside our own sphere of familiarity. By this I mean that we do not hold very much hope for those with different doctrine or habits. If I may elaborate, it seems that we have decidedly more trust that God has saved someone we know than someone we don't, or someone we know but personally dislike. I am aware that 'human nature' could be cited as the cause for this discrepancy. :-) But is is sad, nonetheless. One example would be this particular topic. Those on 'my' side of enduring salvation of the elect (I'm already in trouble!) would look askance at the salvation of those on the 'other' side, as only someone 'not truly saved' would doubt that God's salvation is complete. In other words, we could be 'denying' them the salvation, even though they share faith in Christ Jesus with us. At the same time, one who believes that they 'decide' or 'choose' to know Christ consider it the height of arrogance to believe yourself 'chosen' by God, and they (might) think that this attitude makes you unworthy of Christ. I know this may be a bit 'philosophical,' but I have witnessed these exact situations here on this forum. Yet, I think that I can say that I trust that the great majority (virtually ALL) of the participants of this venue ARE saved by grace, even if they don't agree with ME! (or with the Scriptures :-)) Blessings to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | Easy to deny Christ? | Matt 10:33 | Hank | 31634 | ||
Good soldier of Christ, greetings again, friend Charis! You know, when I tip my toe into these deep waters of High Theology I soon find myself in way over my head! Two points (should be called little anecdotes, really) come to mind that were triggered by some of the observations you made in the post to which I am now responding. The first comes from the later Dr. Elton Trueblood, a Quaker and sometime professor of philosophy and religion at Earlham College in Gambier, Ohio. Said he, "The most convincing proof I've ever been able to find for the reality of Christ and Christianity is changed lives." He went on to say that in his long life he had seen any number of men and women who came face to face, as it were, with Christ and their lives were at that moment changed for all eternity. Another related story comes from Dr. William Barclay, a Scottish Presbyterian, perhaps best known for his "Daily Study Bible" series. He relates the story of a cranky old sour-puss in his congregation. One day someone remarked to Dr. Barclay, "Do you suppose that disagreeable woman is really a Christian? I've always thought that Christ came into a person's life and changed it." Dr. Barclay replied, "Oh, yes, I believe she is a Christian, and I believe that Christ has changed her life. You see, I knew that old gal BEFORE she became a Christian. You should have seen how she was then!" ..... So, Charis, you're right: God can (and does) save even those we may not find the most likeable of human beings on the face of His good earth! Soli Deo Gloria! --Hank | ||||||