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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Who is the verse referring to? | Prov 8:22 | kenny552 | 140784 | ||
This is Old Testament. Question who is the verse referring to? Proverbs 8:22-31 (New International Version) 22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. |
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2 | Who is the verse referring to? | Prov 8:22 | kalos | 140785 | ||
No reference to Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 ____________________ "One point that needs to made right at the start. There is no reference to Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 at all. This passage is speaking of Wisdom, and for those who teach this is Jesus the evidence is not there." ____________________ IS JESUS WISDOM? 'According to Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus is wisdom in Proverbs 8:22. Is Proverbs 8:22 speaking about Jesus? Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22 and was created by God before all other things were created. What is going to be shown here is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, and teach others concerning Proverbs 8:22, and look at the context of Proverbs 8:22 to see what exactly this passage is saying. 'In the Jehovah's Witnesses brochure called "Should You Believe In The Trinity page 14" they say the following: (JW quote begins.) '"Notice how closely those references to the origin of Jesus correlate with expressions uttered by the figurative 'Wisdom' in the Bible book of Proverbs: 'Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world.' (Proverbs 8:12, 22, 25, 26, NJB) While the term 'Wisdom' is used to personify the one whom God created, most scholars agree [say the JWs] that it is actually a figure of speech for Jesus as a spirit creature prior to his human existence." (Should You Believe In The Trinity page 14) (JW quote ends.) 'Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is being spoken of in Proverbs 8:22 and that it teaches Wisdom (Jesus) was created. One point that needs to made right at the start. There is no reference to Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 at all. This passage is speaking of Wisdom, and for those who teach this is Jesus the evidence is not there...' ____________________ To read more, including 'EXAMINING PROVERBS 8 IN CONTEXT', go to: (http://www.apologeticsforchristians.homestead.com/JehovahsWitnessesProverbs8.html) |
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3 | How do JWs reconcile Jn 8:58 | Prov 8:22 | lionheart | 140790 | ||
I've read this passage in Proverbs 8 before and I Know the JWs believe Jesus is a created being. How do they reconcile John 8:58 where Jesus says before Abraham was born I am! ? In Christ Lionheart |
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4 | How do JWs reconcile Jn 8:58 | Prov 8:22 | kalos | 140818 | ||
The Jehovah's Witnesses and John 8:58 'Let's turn to page 467 of the 1969 Greek Interlinear used by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society:. 'The Watchtower's own interlinear translates John 8:58 as "I am" even though in the NWT it renders it as "I have been." In this, they admit that the Greek is indeed, "I am," the present tense. They will not deny this. What they assert is that it should be translated into the English, "I have been." Should it or could it? If it should, then Greek scholars would echo the NWT rendition in the great majority of instances. But they do not. Essentially, the Watchtower organization is saying that all the translations that have "I am" as the rendering are wrong, that the "proper" translation is "I have been." (...) 'In spite of some of the translations regarding John 8:58, I do not believe the NWT's version of John 8:58 is warranted for three reasons: First, it purports to "transmit his [God] thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible."1 I do not believe this is the case at all. Rather, I see the Watchtower's bias against Jesus' divinity overtaking this verse and altering it as it has done in other verses such as Heb. 1:8 and Col. 1:15-17. Second, the most literal translations such as the NASB, the NIV, and the KJV do not render this verse as "I have been" but as "I AM." And, third, the context of the verse does not support the JW position. (...) 'If Jesus wanted to avoid any confusion with the Pharisees, why didn't He use one of the past tenses? Certainly he must have known that saying "Before Abraham was, I am" to the Pharisees would cause some problems. And it did. The aorist (I was), the perfect (I have been), and the pluperfect (I had been) all deal with the past, yet Jesus chose to deliberately use the present tense "I am." He used a past tense verb when describing Abraham ("before Abraham was..."), but a present tense verb when describing Himself ("I am"). He deliberately brought attention to the words, "I am." The Pharisees understood this and was indeed the last straw for them. 'Conclusion 'The Jehovah's Witnesses have spent a great deal of time developing and crafting linguistic arguments to favor their translation of John 8:58. Wading through their arguments dealing with Greek tenses, verb forms, and grammar rules is beyond the scope of this paper. However, it is sufficient to mention that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a theological bias against the deity of Christ. Their translation of John 8:58 and their attempts to justify this translation are directly related to their presuppositions against Christ and his deity. 'The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teaches its members to deny the deity of Christ. From this base, any and all affirmations to Jesus' deity will be undermined in whatever way possible. John 8:58 is just another example of this bias.' _____________________ 1 New World Translation, 1961, page 5. CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS and RESEARCH MINISTRY (To read the entire article, go to: http://www.carm.org/jw/john8_58.htm) |
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5 | How do JWs reconcile Jn 8:58 | Prov 8:22 | lionheart | 140820 | ||
kalos, Goodmorning. Thanx brother that clarifies things quite well. lionheart |
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