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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | A good Man? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101317 | ||
Hi Searcher56, Jesus does not lead them to a man does He? He leads them to Himself. He and the Father are one. Let us give glory to God together. John 7:12, "And there was much grumbling among the multitudes concerning Him;/ some were saying, 'He is a good *Man; others were saying, 'No on the contrary, (He) leads the multitudes astray." John 9:33, "If this *Man were not from God, (He) could do nothing." John 9:13, "They brought to the Pharisees him who was formerly blind. Now it was a Sabbath on the day when Jesus/ made the clay, and opened his eyes. Again, therefore, the Pharisees also were asking him how he received his sight. And he said to them, "He applied clay to my eyes, and I washed, and I see." 16 Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, "This *Man is not from (God), because He does not keep the Sabbath."..." John 9:24, "So a second time they called the man who had been blind, and said to him, "Give glory to (God); we know that this *Man is a sinner." John 9:28, "And they reviled him, and said, "You are His/ disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses; but as for this *Man, we do not know where (He) is from." So the question we have to answer is whether we believe in the Son of Man. Is He that One who is talking and worthy of belief and worship? John 9:37 The division that is among even Christians revolves around the question in John 9:16, "How can a *Man who is a sinner perform such signs?" And also John 9:26, "How did He open your eyes?" How much are we God-fearing? verse 31. What do we say about Him because He opened our eyes? Do you think that He was the expected Prophet? verse 17. I desire to be His [sic] disciple and give glory to God. From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101369 | ||
I was comparing/contrasting some verses today and happened on Luke 13:27 and John 9:29. John 9:29 says in part, "we do not know where (He) is from." Luke 13:27 says in part, "(I) do not know where you are from." Also Luke 13:26 says, "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You/ taught in our streets'". John 6:45, "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God/.'.." I hope that we can accept the teachings of God and know Him better so that He will know where we are coming from. Do any thoughts or verses come to mind for anyone? Would John 3:8 apply here? |
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3 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101393 | ||
Hi, Ray: How are you comparing these two scriptures? What are you getting out of them that shows their connection? John 9:29 is the Pharisees talking with the ex-blind man. Luke 13:27 is Jesus talking about those that claim to know Him. Although both instances have to do with hypocrites. |
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4 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101405 | ||
Hi compudex, My comparison is connecting the statements of the Man Jesus Christ and the men among the multitude. The connection was shown by the parentheses around the compared pronouns. The Pharisees or Jews of John 9:15,18 said that they did NOT know where this Man was from. Let me give you a couple verses to compare for the people who DID know where He was from. John 7:27, "Therefore some of the people of Jerusalem were saying, "Is this not the *Man whom they are seeking to kill? And look, He is speaking publicly, and they are saying nothing to (Him). The rulers do not really know that this is the Christ, do they? 27 However, we know where this *Man is from; but whenever the Christ may come, no one knows where He is from." John 6:42, "And they were saying, "Is not this Jesus/ the *Son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, "(I) have come down out of heaven?"" John 9:27, "...but as for this *Man, we do not know where (He) is from." The *stars are by pronouns that are not capitalized in the NASB, but which I interpret as speaking of Jesus so I capitalize them. This One that came down from heaven is the Light of the world and is God Himself and His witness is true. We have been taught of God. John 8:14, "Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of (Myself), My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I/ am going." John 6:45, "...And they shall all be taught of God/. The parentheses and slashes are mine for comparison and/or contrast. From the heart, Ray |
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5 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101415 | ||
Hi Ray, I don't know for sure if this is what you are looking for. John 7:27 The people and Pharisees knew Him as Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph and Mary, not as Christ, Son of God. The phrase, "but when Christ cometh..." , shows that they did not believe that He was the Messiah. And that no man knew where the Christ was coming from. (even though it was described perfectly by the prophets of old). John 6:42 They were quoting Jesus here. John 9:29 Let's start at John 9:27 - if I tell you again will you be his disciples? Now this is where the pompous and arrogant attitude comes in. John 9:28 "Thou art his disciple; but WE are Moses' disciples." (I'm better than you attitude) John 9:29 (with attitude) We know Moses, not this guy. (paraphrased) And their attitude reached its climax in John 9:34, You sinner, how dare you teach us, WE being men of the cloth.(paraphrased) John 6:45 Quoted from the old testament : All be taught but not all will accept it or stay with it. As the children of Israel are proof of in the wilderness. 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Peace! |
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6 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101437 | ||
Hi compudex, You said that you don't know for sure what I am looking for. It is the expressed desire of many on this forum to "come to the knowlege of the truth". They are seeking for truth. I express that like Paul I am telling the truth [in Christ, NKJ] and not lying. Is it enough to just tell the truth? You spoke of John 6:45 and said, "All will be taught but not all will accept it or stay with it". I would say that "it" (truth) is not enough. John 6:45 says that they shall all be taught of God; that is, the Truth, "He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit." 1 Timothy 3:16. 1) I want to be His [sic] disciple; for He was not just a man. He was vindicated in the Spirit. From the heart, Ray From the heart, Ray |
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7 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101442 | ||
Again I find that on this forum people can't stick to their own subject without preaching. The original request was the comparing of scripture. Now you have turned it into a debate. Which do you choose? Plus, you have taken my words out of context. And you twisted my statement. I said, "I don't know for sure if this is what you are looking for." My statement had to do with the verses I listed in my last response to you. About the the (Man) and the (I) and the (He). You state you want to be His disciple. Well, what is holding you back? Peace! |
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8 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101484 | ||
Hi compudex. I am sorry that my last post sounded argumentative. May I assure you that I did not mean anything personal; I was speaking in generalities. My only explanation in defense of how I sounded is that I had written what I thought was a good response and it was lost in cyberspace at the end. In that post I had quoted you correctly. Sorry about that. From the heart, Ray |
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9 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101493 | ||
Hi Ray, There is no contention here on my part. Writing posts and answers to some of the question on this forum, and with my limited ability as an orator, sometimes, is hard to convey the intent of thought. By the time the thought gets from the brain, out the finger tips and to the keyboard, some things get lost. I even flucked English in high school once. But, the Lord has been patient with me. In wanting to be His disciple, I would say, our passions will be realized as we grow. As a man sows, so shall he reap. Ah, now I'm preaching. :-) Peace to you! |
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10 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101597 | ||
Hi compudex, I can't see you flunking English; typing class maybe, but your English is grate." :)) I don't know how well you know me, but I have been stressing the capitalization of Man in the Scriptures on this forum, and that is why I keep capitalizing His disciples. This afternoon I looked at a few more Scriptures to compare. Matthew 13:54, "And coming to His home town He began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they became astonished, and said, "Where did this (Man) get this wisdom, and these miraculous powers? Is not this the carpenter's *Son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things? 57 And they took offense at Him/." What do you think? Were they being taught of God?/ What do you think? Was He the Prophet in His home town? Mark 2:7, "But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, "Why does this Man speak this way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but (God) alone? [Lit., if not one, God] John 5:12, "Who is the *Man who said to you, "Take up your pallet, and walk?" Where, Why, Who? From the heart, Ray |
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11 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101618 | ||
Well, thanks for the A on my English. I did much better in college. Concering what you wrote: Matthew 13:54 "And coming to His home town...". That is the problem right there. They knew (H)im as (h)im, Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary. They watched him grow up. They watched him do the daily chores of living in a small town. They knew he was a good kid (no disrespect intended) and did what his 'father', Joseph, told him to do, but that is how they thought of him. Not as (H)im. To capitalize the words within the quotes of the townspeople would not be proper; grammatically, because it is a quote. That would be a misquote. Furthermore, it changes the meaning of what is conveyed by their conversation. Yes, He was a prophet in His home town, but to the people, He was just the man next door. (small m) Were they being taught of God? Yes, for He is God, but they did not know that. They have eyes and cannot see, ears and cannot hear. SCRIBES - The more highly esteemed the Law became in the eyes of the people, the more its study and interpretation became a lifework by itself, and thus there developed a class of scholars who, though not priests, devoted themselves only to the Law. We have a saying today, "The letter of the law kills". I wonder where that came from? All they knew was the letter of the law. I don't see anywhere in the Gospels where they (Pharisees) preached about the love of God or any rememberance of the kindness He showed to them in the wilderness or how, by His love for them, He delivered them from Egypt. A far cry from the psalmist David, a repenter. I would be careful in changing the meaning of the Scriptures. Something to keep in the back of your head also is that these people had been without a prophet for 400 years. Just look at what has happened in our nation in just 200 years. Where will it be in another 200 years if the Lord tarries? My, my!! |
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12 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101687 | ||
Hi compudex, These things are good to consider and I appreciate the chance to talk with you about them. You said that the quotes of the people should be in lower case because they thought of Him just as the man next door. You continued and said that if "Son" were capitalized it would change the meaning of what is conveyed by their conversation. I believe I have stated your point correctly; if not let me know. But lets notice a few more things and talk about the problems translators/interpreters of Bibles like the NASB and NKJ have; using this as an example. The quote of the people has the "son", but it also goes on and talks about (H)is mother, (H)is brother, (H)is sisters, and then the quote includes this (m)an again. So the question is, "Just who are they taking offense at?" If your point is followed, then we would have to print in our interpretation "son", his mother, his brothers, and his sisters and this man." So now the question; "Who are they taking offense at?" Are they taking offense at this man? No, I don't believe so. I believe that they are taking offense at Him/, this (Man) with miraculous powers, this carpenter's Son. I would say that capitalizing Son is what makes the quote of the people clear in meaning. 1) I would say that He is a Prophet in (His) home town. Whether the people know it or not; for after all, this is God's word. 2) I think that the problem that the translators/interpreters like the NASB and NKJ have to be concerned about more is their consistency about this Man. From the heart, Ray |
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13 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101700 | ||
Part 1: Hi Ray, I don't know how many versions of the Bible you have so I have included 7 versions (Part 2). It is interesting to note that some of them don't even capitalize the first letter of the sentence. I do agree they were taking offense of Christ (H)im. And since the incident took place inside the synagogue, more than likely, those who spoke out, where the elders. Because they had a heritage, or lineage, inside the synagogue, being Rabbis. Jesus stood up and started teaching. How dare he speak to these people in this manner, he is only a peasant. Exactly, they took offense to (H)im. Verse 58 says "their unbelief" would be the clue to the foregoing theme to be conveyed. Also, if we capitalize son as in "carpenter's Son", then we would be inferring deity to the carpenter. Maybe it is that not all translators are lead by the Spirit! I personally take offense of the NASB for twisting quotes! Ray, I am no scholar, but I have been told the some of the original languages didn't even have capital letters in their abc's. Most of the capitalization of the Scriptures came from inference of meaning. I really cannot say if this is true because I can only read English, sometimes :-). Indeed, He was a Prophet in His home town! And they did take offense of Him! I also have a copy of the Greek New Testament, but it does not translate on this web site because the text box will not accept that kind of font. If you would like I can email these verses to you. Maybe you know someone that can read it. I don't know anyone. BTW: The best Bible program I have found with as many versions, commentaries and dictionaries you want for free. Very, very good! God bless them for not making a profit upon God's Word! http://www.e-sword.net |
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14 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101729 | ||
Hi compudex, I again admit to studying only from the NASB, NKJ, and the Greek because by now I feel so strongly that pronouns of Deity should be capitalized. If they are not, then I feel that they are not honoring to God. Now that isn't to say that they are bad translations; but they are not good "interpretations" of the Scriptures. And they do not claim to be "interpreters" or interpretations. What I am doing in pencil in my own personal copy is my interpretation as per capitalization of pronouns. We all have to decide for ourselves how we interpret the Scriptures for as you say the Greek does not help us there except by context, and comparison of Scripture with Scripture. The Jehovah's witness has to decide whether Jesus was God or a god. The modern day Jew has to decide whether Jesus was a prophet or the Prophet. We have to decide whether He was a man or a Man. These are important choices to be made. You wrote, "Also, if we capitalize son as in "carpenter's Son", then we would be inferring deity to the carpenter." Lets look at another Scripture and consider whether a capitalized Son would infer deity to Mary. Mark 6:3, "Is not this the carpenter, the *Son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us? And they took offense at Him./ 4 And Jesus said to them, "A *Prophet is not without honor except in (His) home town and among His relatives and in His own household." Matthew 13:55, "Is this not the carpenter's *Son? Is not His [sic] mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this *Man get all these things? 57 And they took offense at Him./ But Jesus said to them, "A *Prophet is not without honor except in (His) home town, and in His own household." The *starred pronouns are my interpretation and the parenthese are mine. NASB used in quotes. I would say that Jesus was the Son of Joseph and Mary in the sense that He was their God. Scriptures are not hesitant to talk of the "Son of David" for we know whose Son He is. He is the Son of Man, the Son of God. Personally, for my copy, I have Matthew 1:1 as "The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the *(Son) of David, the *Son of Abraham." And Matthew 1:20, "But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that [the Child] which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bear a Son [sic]; and you shall call His/ name Jesus, for it is He who will save (His) people from their sins." Where is the consistency if she bore a Son but it [He] is not the Son of Mary. Is "it" enough? She was "with child"; and bore a Son who was "God with us". Matthew 1:23, NKJ,""Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel", which is translated, "God with us."" (I chose the NKJ because the NASB has this quote in all caps and it would be confusing to our study if I typed it that way.) From the heart, Ray |
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15 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101772 | ||
Hi Ray, Yes, I agree that diety should be capitalized. But, BUT, you CAN NOT change quotes! Jesus was not the Son of Mary, He was the son of Mary. The inference is a man talking about a man. Not a man talking about God. He, Jesus, was his neighbor as far as he knew. You CANNOT change what others say! Pretend, just pretend, you grew up with Jesus in the same neighborhood. You and he went for walks. You went to get water together. Now He preaches in the synagogue. What do you say? Isn't this the guy I fetched water with? Not isn't ths the Guy I fetched water with. You are adding diety to where these people didn't know He was diety. If you capitalize these words then it shows that they knew exactly who He was, and they didn't. He was the guy next door! Honestly, Ray, I think you are missing the context of the Scriptures. You know He is diety and I know He is diety but they didn't. And that is why WITHIN the quotes He is he, Son is son. You have to put these things in context as to who is speaking. I don't want to be rude Ray, but I think you are beating a dead horse. I still do not like how the NSAB has re-written these passages. BTW: The Living Bible, if you have one, check to see if they translated "virgin" (Mary, mother of Jesus) to a young woman. Now there is a piece of work. Peace to you! |
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16 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101789 | ||
Hi compudex, In your pretend story, you and this guy feched water together. Why do you say that He [sic] preaches in the synagogue? The pronouns should agree; in either lower or upper case. You are interested in quotation marks. Lets look at an example of what Jesus said in Matthew 26:75. "And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, "Before a cock crows, you will deny Me [sic] three times." And he went out and wept bitterly." The question I would pose to you is "Did Peter deny "Me" or "me"? Did He deny the Man or the man? If Peter denied the "man" (the Galilean verse 69, of Nazareth verse 7l, and didn't know the man, verse 74) then the quote of Jesus should be, "Before a cock crows, you will deny me [sic] three times." I would go with the NKJ. Matthew 26:74, "Then he began to curse and swear, saying, "I do not know the Man!" Immediately a rooster crowed. And Peter remembered the word of Jesus who had said to him, "Before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." So he went out and wept bitterly." I want to know this Man more and more; better and better. From the heart, Ray |
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17 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101802 | ||
Good, you caught it. "Now He preaches in the synagogue". Shouldn't that be he. Because in the pretend story I knew him, not as Him. Did Peter deny "Me" or "me"? Both. Peter denied Christ (Me) to himself. But to the his accusers, Peter denied the man. If Peter's accusers were followers of Jesus, Peter would have no cause to fear his association with Jesus. If the accusers were followers of Christ, the accusations would never have come. The accusation to Peter was, "You are one of this man's followers, this man ...this man that calls himself the Messiah. This man that our courts have found guilty of blasphemy. You are an accessory to his sedition." Thus the swearing comes forth from Peter's mouth, the cursing, trying to save his own skin. If Peter had conveyed the idea of Man rather than man the crowd, no doubt, would have stoned him. Yes, to himself, Peter denied the Man. The bitter weeping shows us that. But, to the crowd, he denied the man, for the crowd did not know the Man. As far as Jesus' words, ..."you will deny me...", now this is a different story. Was Jesus telling Peter that he was going to deny the divine Me or the human me? Yes, both. To himself, the Man and the man. To the crowd, the Man and the man. How bitter that weeping must have been. Picture the convulsions of Peter's body, hard to breath, eye lids smashed shut with grief, the tears and his runny nose gushing like water from a broken damn, unable to even stand and when falling to the ground, not even feeling it because of the guilt that now wrenches his aching body. To have been with the King of the universe for three years. To have been chosen by the Majesty on High to be the rock of His church. ... And I turned my back on Him. Oh, death were are you? Do what you will with the capitalization Ray. Peace to you! |
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18 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101826 | ||
Hi compudex, In your pretend story, if you knew that He [sic] preaches in the synagogue, that is, you are being taught of God, can we agree that it is the same Person that you fetched water with? Whether it is a "guy" or a "Guy" are you talking about the same Person? In other words, for Matthew 13:55, whether it is "son" or "Son" does the verse talk of the same Person? I ask this because the bottom line for me in my study is that I am a "counter of pronouns". In other words, if a word is talking about the Man (man?) Jesus Christ, I capitalize it and I "count" it. My question for you is, would you "count" the word carpenter's "son" as a word that is talking about Christ? If you would, then I would not argue with you and I would let you capitalize what you will, also. If one studies from the King James which does not capitalize pronouns and he/she has the mindset that although the pronouns are lower case they still talk about God, I think that is great. If you count the carpenter's son of Matthew 13:55 as being God's Son, I think that is great. Whether we think of the God/Man or the God/man, let the pronouns concerning Him be "counted". From the heart, Ray |
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19 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101837 | ||
Hello Ray, "In your pretend story, if you knew that He [sic] preaches in the synagogue, that is, you are being taught of God, can we agree that it is the same Person that you fetched water with?" Ah - that is the whole point, did THEY know they were being taught by God? "My question for you is, would you "count" the word carpenter's "son" as a word that is talking about Christ?" Yes, to us, because we know the ending to the story. But if we were back there in the synagogue with these men, no. He was just a man. The neighbor's boy. It is good to study. But put the pronouns in the context of time and who is speaking. It was a historical event. You can't change history. Peace to you! |
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20 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101958 | ||
Hi compudex, You said, "Ah, that is the whole point, did THEY know they were being taught by God?" So, YOU knew in your pretend story to capitalize "He preaches" because you know the Man (the Guy, the Fellow). But you would say that THEY would say as did the scribes, Matthew 9:3, "And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow blasphemes." But I would say as does the NKJ, "And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, "This Man blasphemes." 1) 1 Corinthians 1:13 entered my mind for this discussion. "Has Christ been divided?" In the context, the brethren were quarreling among them about which MAN they were from. "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." ***I intentionally put MAN in all caps so that you can decide to put it in lower or upper case. Is there a difference between these men and the Man Jesus Christ? The writer goes on and asks "Is Christ divided?" NKJ. Paul explains that a man was not crucified for you. You were not baptized in the name of a man. And verse 14 says that he thanked God that no one was baptized into Paul's name. ( No one was of Paul) But I think it of interest also that some ancient manuscripts want to leave "God" out of verse 14. I believe that that fact points out the quarrel. The bottom line is that we are baptized in the name of God; and God is not divided. 2) Continuing in that line of thought, can we here in Matthew 13:55 say, "We are of the carpenter's son." Can we divide God on the pages of Scripture and say, here he is a man, and here he is the Man? Luke 11:17; Matthew 12:25; John 13:3; Luke 9:47. Jesus knew men. He knew their thoughts. He knows our thoughts. Even though men may not know Him, He is who He is. Luke 9:32-36. Luke 9:35, "And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen/ One; listen to Him!" And when the voice had spoken, (Jesus) was found alone. And they kept silent, and reported to no one in those days any of the things which they had seen." ***I believe that He is the God/Man, God with us. From the heart, Ray |
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