Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101802 | ||
Good, you caught it. "Now He preaches in the synagogue". Shouldn't that be he. Because in the pretend story I knew him, not as Him. Did Peter deny "Me" or "me"? Both. Peter denied Christ (Me) to himself. But to the his accusers, Peter denied the man. If Peter's accusers were followers of Jesus, Peter would have no cause to fear his association with Jesus. If the accusers were followers of Christ, the accusations would never have come. The accusation to Peter was, "You are one of this man's followers, this man ...this man that calls himself the Messiah. This man that our courts have found guilty of blasphemy. You are an accessory to his sedition." Thus the swearing comes forth from Peter's mouth, the cursing, trying to save his own skin. If Peter had conveyed the idea of Man rather than man the crowd, no doubt, would have stoned him. Yes, to himself, Peter denied the Man. The bitter weeping shows us that. But, to the crowd, he denied the man, for the crowd did not know the Man. As far as Jesus' words, ..."you will deny me...", now this is a different story. Was Jesus telling Peter that he was going to deny the divine Me or the human me? Yes, both. To himself, the Man and the man. To the crowd, the Man and the man. How bitter that weeping must have been. Picture the convulsions of Peter's body, hard to breath, eye lids smashed shut with grief, the tears and his runny nose gushing like water from a broken damn, unable to even stand and when falling to the ground, not even feeling it because of the guilt that now wrenches his aching body. To have been with the King of the universe for three years. To have been chosen by the Majesty on High to be the rock of His church. ... And I turned my back on Him. Oh, death were are you? Do what you will with the capitalization Ray. Peace to you! |
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2 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101826 | ||
Hi compudex, In your pretend story, if you knew that He [sic] preaches in the synagogue, that is, you are being taught of God, can we agree that it is the same Person that you fetched water with? Whether it is a "guy" or a "Guy" are you talking about the same Person? In other words, for Matthew 13:55, whether it is "son" or "Son" does the verse talk of the same Person? I ask this because the bottom line for me in my study is that I am a "counter of pronouns". In other words, if a word is talking about the Man (man?) Jesus Christ, I capitalize it and I "count" it. My question for you is, would you "count" the word carpenter's "son" as a word that is talking about Christ? If you would, then I would not argue with you and I would let you capitalize what you will, also. If one studies from the King James which does not capitalize pronouns and he/she has the mindset that although the pronouns are lower case they still talk about God, I think that is great. If you count the carpenter's son of Matthew 13:55 as being God's Son, I think that is great. Whether we think of the God/Man or the God/man, let the pronouns concerning Him be "counted". From the heart, Ray |
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3 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101837 | ||
Hello Ray, "In your pretend story, if you knew that He [sic] preaches in the synagogue, that is, you are being taught of God, can we agree that it is the same Person that you fetched water with?" Ah - that is the whole point, did THEY know they were being taught by God? "My question for you is, would you "count" the word carpenter's "son" as a word that is talking about Christ?" Yes, to us, because we know the ending to the story. But if we were back there in the synagogue with these men, no. He was just a man. The neighbor's boy. It is good to study. But put the pronouns in the context of time and who is speaking. It was a historical event. You can't change history. Peace to you! |
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4 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 101958 | ||
Hi compudex, You said, "Ah, that is the whole point, did THEY know they were being taught by God?" So, YOU knew in your pretend story to capitalize "He preaches" because you know the Man (the Guy, the Fellow). But you would say that THEY would say as did the scribes, Matthew 9:3, "And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow blasphemes." But I would say as does the NKJ, "And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, "This Man blasphemes." 1) 1 Corinthians 1:13 entered my mind for this discussion. "Has Christ been divided?" In the context, the brethren were quarreling among them about which MAN they were from. "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." ***I intentionally put MAN in all caps so that you can decide to put it in lower or upper case. Is there a difference between these men and the Man Jesus Christ? The writer goes on and asks "Is Christ divided?" NKJ. Paul explains that a man was not crucified for you. You were not baptized in the name of a man. And verse 14 says that he thanked God that no one was baptized into Paul's name. ( No one was of Paul) But I think it of interest also that some ancient manuscripts want to leave "God" out of verse 14. I believe that that fact points out the quarrel. The bottom line is that we are baptized in the name of God; and God is not divided. 2) Continuing in that line of thought, can we here in Matthew 13:55 say, "We are of the carpenter's son." Can we divide God on the pages of Scripture and say, here he is a man, and here he is the Man? Luke 11:17; Matthew 12:25; John 13:3; Luke 9:47. Jesus knew men. He knew their thoughts. He knows our thoughts. Even though men may not know Him, He is who He is. Luke 9:32-36. Luke 9:35, "And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen/ One; listen to Him!" And when the voice had spoken, (Jesus) was found alone. And they kept silent, and reported to no one in those days any of the things which they had seen." ***I believe that He is the God/Man, God with us. From the heart, Ray |
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5 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 101974 | ||
Hello brother, You said: But you would say that THEY would say as did the scribes, Matthew 9:3, "And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow blasphemes." Yes. You said: But I would say as does the NKJ, "And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, "This Man blasphemes." If this was correct you would also have to capitalize "fellow". (1Co 1:12) Now this I mean, that each one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. (1Co 1:13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized into the name of Paul? In context they were saying that our group is better than yours. It was a vanity thing. Like today, "Well, I belong to the Baptist Church." "Well, we belong to the Church of Christ". "Well, we belong to the Full Gospel Church". In otherwords it is called PRIDE. It didn't have anything to do with a man, per say. It was a congregational thing. Thinking that one is better than the other. And Paul was telling them, "Hey, you guys, it doesn't matter who baptized you. You were baptized into the body of Christ and He is one. Why are you causing all this strife? Is this how we should conduct ourselves? Get your act together and preach Christ only!" NOTE: It should be noted for this forum the above mentioned churches are used here only for reference as to context of this thread and is not to be construded that there is one that is preferred over the other. You say: Can we divide God on the pages of Scripture and say, here he is a man, and here he is the Man? I say in Spirit No, but in contexual transmission of thought, Yes. Just as Pilate's change of thought about Christ: KJV: (Joh 19:5) .... And Pilate saith unto them, Behold, the man! This conveys that Jesus was just like any other human. KJV: (Joh 19:14) .... And he saith unto the Jews, Behold, your King! This conveys that Jesus was who He said He was. NOTE: Personaly, I believe Pilate was then converted. The versions of the Bible do vary and it is good to view these things. I told you before the Living Bible reduces the virgin Mary, to just a young woman. For the phrase, "young woman" does not mean she was a virgin. Thereby taking away from the meaning that Jesus was divine. Ray, are we trying to convert each other? I accepted Jesus as my saviour 10/22/72. Baptized 10/29/72 at the Full Gospel Lighthouse in Oak View, CA Baptized into one body! Now a resident of Tucson, AZ Read my bio if you like. Peace to you! |
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6 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 102034 | ||
Hi compudex, I'll try and answer your post from the top down. I appreciate this talk with you very much. For Matthew 9:3 I do capitalize "Fellow" just as you would capitalize "Guy" in your pretend story if you were to truly understand that "He was preaching". For 1 Cor l:13 the concern that Paul had was first of all that Christ had been divided and the application is there for us as you say because we are His [sic] spiritual body and we should not be divided. I do know where you are coming from as far as how people were thinking, but I still would say that no matter what they were thinking, if the pronoun is referring to Jesus then it should be capitalized. As far as Pilate is concerned I do not think that he changed his thought about Christ. John 19:5 in the King James has "Behold, the man!" but the NASB and the NKJ which concern themselves with capitalization both have "Behold, the Man!" Note: If Pilate was converted He chose some wrong people to be friends to, namely, Herod. I have a Living Bible somewhere,but I don't know exactly what verse you are referring to. It would probably be good to compare it with the other verses that talk of the virgin and see how they compare in meaning. That way, it could be determined if they were trying to deceive or not. A young woman could still be a virgin, but does the Greek in your selected verse necessarily mean virgin. Now, are we trying to convert each other? No, I know that we both love the Lord. For me, I feel that I have gotten to know Him better through my years of capitalization study. I know that He is a saviour. I know that He came as a light. I know that in Him was life. I know that He is a rock. His word is truth. But I know that He is my Savior. He is the Light of the world. In Him is the whole message of Life. He is my Rock. He is the Truth. The Jews knew that He was the King. Pilate, I think, knew that He was the Truth. But they sought to kill Him anyway. So I am no better because He is my King and I know Him to be the Truth. But I want to know (Him) better. For this is my interpretation of John 14:6,7, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life,/ no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known (Me), you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." That is enough for me. From the heart, Ray |
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7 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 102044 | ||
Ray, Note: If Pilate was converted He chose some wrong people to be friends to, namely, Herod. Yes, but the friendship only happened just before Christ was crucified. Consider the works of Josephus the historian: Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVIII CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF THIRTY-TWO YEARS. FROM THE BANISHMENT OF ARCHELUS TO THE DEPARTURE FROM BABYLON. (8) These Jews, as they are here called, whose blood Pilate shed on this occasion, may very well be those very Galilean Jews, "whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices," Luke 13:1, 2; these tumults being usually excited at some of the Jews' great festivals, when they slew abundance of sacrifices, and the Galileans being commonly much more busy in such tumults than those of Judea and Jerusalem, as we learn from the history of Archelaus, Antiq. B. XVII. ch. 9. sect. 3 and ch. 10. sect. 2, 9; though, indeed, Josephus's present copies say not one word of "those eighteen upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them," which the 4th verse of the same 13th chapter of St. Luke informs us of. But since our gospel teaches us, Luke 23:6, 7, that "when Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether Jesus were a Galilean. And as soon as he knew that he belonged to Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod ;" and ver. 12, "The same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together for before they had been at enmity between themselves;" take the very probable key of this matter in the words of the learned Noldius, de Herod. No. 219: "The cause of the enmity between Herod and Pilate (says he) seems to have been this, that Pilate had intermeddled with the tetrarch's jurisdiction, and had slain some of his Galilean subjects, Luke 13:1; and, as he was willing to correct that error, he sent Christ to Herod at this time." But, when Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate is when Pilate chose the different wording. Anyway, Ray, I think we should end this thread before we take up all the disk space. Yes, he is He and god is God. No translaters can take that away. No versions of Scripture can put away Divinity. And no pronouns. I love you brother. Keep the faith. We will get together again, either here or there, I am sure. Peace to you and your house! |
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8 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | Ray | 102097 | ||
Hi compudex, I don't mean to try and get in the last word, but I have to clear up something you said at the last. You wrote, "Yes, he is He and god is God. No translators can take that away. No versions of Scripture can put away Divinity." The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures printed by the Jehovah's Witnesses is one that can try to put away Divinity. In John 1:1 they say that "the Word was a god." In the King James, for instance, when a pronoun of Deity is a he, then he is He. But God is always God there. Not so in the NWT, where they make Him a god. And you have to know that I am not happy to see people type with all lower case print and talk about god. But what is this "And no pronouns."? Are you giving me an ultimatum? :)) I love you too. Thanks for the time together. From the heart, Ray |
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9 | Spirit or spirit? | Prov 5:21 | compudex | 102101 | ||
I meant that no pronoun written on a piece of paper can make God anything less than God. How can man change God? NWT, yes I know. I was raised by one. In my teens. Peace! |
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