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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The rod of correction, could it also mea | Prov 20:30 | estella | 92316 | ||
Could "strokes" or "stripes reach to the innermost parts or the "inward parts of the belly" refer to the "feeling" of guilt? Thus meaning that the rod of correction removes GUILT from a child? | ||||||
2 | The rod of correction, could it also mea | Prov 20:30 | Radioman2 | 92328 | ||
Guilt is not merely a subjective feeling. It is an objective fact. Guilt is the "fact of having committed a breach of conduct especially violating law and involving a penalty." ____________________ Estella: Question: 'Could "strokes" or "stripes reach to the innermost parts or the "inward parts of the belly" refer to the "feeling" of guilt? Thus meaning that the rod of correction removes GUILT from a child?' Answer: Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your good question. My understanding of Proverbs 20:30 is that it does not refer to the "feeling" of guilt, but to the actual guilt (which is more than merely a subjective feeling), i.e., the evil itself. Note the use of the word "evil" in the following translations. AMPLIFIED Proverbs 20:30 Blows that wound cleanse away evil, and strokes [for correction] reach to the innermost parts. The Revised Standard Version Proverbs 20:30 Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts. Proverbs 20:30 New Living Translation (NLT) Physical punishment cleanses away evil; such discipline purifies the heart. Proverbs 20:30 Contemporary English Version (CEV) A severe beating can knock all of the evil out of you! GOD'S WORD Proverbs 20:30 Brutal beatings cleanse away wickedness. Such beatings cleanse the innermost being. Proverbs 20:30 The Message (MSG) A good thrashing purges evil; punishment goes deep within us. Grace and peace to you, Radioman2 |
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3 | The rod of correction, could it also mea | Prov 20:30 | gracefull | 92343 | ||
Radioman2, Can external discipline truly cleanse the heart? No...so is this speaking of will and actions or thought processes? One might believe that our physical discipline can cleans our sin nature but we know only the new birth enables us to be developed into the divine likeness of Christ from the heart. 2 Peter 1:3-5 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; What do you think Proverbs means by innermost being? God bless |
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4 | The rod of correction, could it also mea | Prov 20:30 | Radioman2 | 92492 | ||
Gracefull: You raise good questions that help bring out the meaning of Proverbs 20:30. You are correct when you write: "Can external discipline truly cleanse the heart? No." Who was pierced through for our transgressions? Who was crushed for our iniquities? By whose stripes are we healed? The correct answer to all three questions is the Messiah, Christ. Thus we can never be cleansed from sin by the punishment of our own bodies. NASB Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. AMPLIFIED Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole. The meaning of Proverbs 20:30 and other verses like it is simply: "Wise use of corporal punishment deters evil behavior" (John MacArthur). (In the New Living Translation (NLT) the translators' note at Prov. 20:30 says of the word "evil": "The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.") What do I think Proverbs means by innermost being? I would go with the NLT which translates "innermost being" as "the heart". (heart 5 : "one's innermost character, feelings, or inclinations (knew it in his heart) (a man after my own heart)" [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary]) Proverbs 20:30 New Living Translation (NLT) Physical punishment cleanses away evil; such discipline purifies the heart. Grace to you, Radioman2 |
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5 | The rod of correction, could it also mea | Prov 20:30 | gracefull | 92736 | ||
Radioman2 Thank you for your response. Ypu said.... What do I think Proverbs means by innermost being? I would go with the NLT which translates "innermost being" as "the heart". (heart 5 : "one's innermost character, feelings, or inclinations (knew it in his heart) (a man after my own heart)" [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary]) I agree. Often I listen for the 'carnal' interpretation people may place on 'spiritual' truths and 'spiritual' truths some place on carnal. in this verse some might interpret it to say physical punishment or discipline can 'save the soul'...some legalists have actually imposed that thinking on their children and the result was child abuse followed by hatred for the God that these children perceive as the 'cause of' their abuse...This is why I felt the need to elaborate on the fact that physical discilpline can correct a child's behaviour..and correct behaviour can lead a child to understanding of good and evil, right and wrong. Correcting the heart does not save the soul, but should lead ont to the place of recognizing and receiving. Matthew 12:34-35 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Jesus distinguished between those who could not 'hear' as of their father the devil and those who 'hear' as those of His Father God. It was all a matter of the heart..those who loved God, recognized Jesus, those who despised God, could not recognize Jesus. God bless |
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