Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Morant61 | 46107 | ||
Greetings Scott! Everything you said in this post is a violation of the clear meaning of the language used in Gen. 1-2 my friend. You try to say that Gen. 1:24 is referring to mankind. Yet, 1:24 clearly defines what the creatures referred to are: ".... livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good." Then, in verse 26, God turns to the creation of man, which is accomplished in v. 27 (not v. 24). In Gen. 1:26-31, the following statements are made about man. a) Man is created in the image of God - v. 26. b) Man wil rule over the creatures created in v. 24 - v. 26. c) God created man in His image - v. 27. d) God created man male and female (Adam and Eve) - v. 27. e) They are commanded to: be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it, and to rule over the creatures created in v. 24 - v. 28. Your attempt to support from the New Testament that Gen. 1:24 refers to mankind fails for the following reasons. The LXX translates the word 'creature' in Gen. 1:24 with the Greek word 'psuche'. Yet: Mark 16:15 uses the word 'ktisis'. Col. 1:15 uses the word 'ktisis', and 2 Cor. 5:17 uses the word 'ktisis'. This is exactly the situation we discussed earlier in another thread my friend. Once we 'spiritualize' the creation account, we can make it mean whatever we want. Gen. 1-2 never says that God created different races of men. It only says that He created Adam, and then Eve from Adam. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Sctt | 46122 | ||
Hi Tim good to here from you again first if you read Gen. 1:24 it says And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature (nephesh) after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Now read Gen.2:7 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul ( nephesh). Creature and soul both come from the Hebrew word nephesh. Lets look at a few more verses were nephesh is man. Gen.9:5 5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life(nephesh) of man. Gen.12:5 5And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls(nephesh) that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came. Gen.14:21 21And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons,(nephesh) and take the goods to thyself. Ex.12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man(nephesh) must eat, that only may be done of you. The word nephesh appears 753 times in the OT and almost all (if not all ) deal with man. Now you bring out that the word nephesh in the Greek means psuche. Well lets look at this word in the NT. 1Co.15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul(psuche); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. This is in direct relation to Gen.1:24 ,2:7 So you could say the first man Adam was made a living Nephesh. Mt 10:39 He that findeth his life(psuche,nephesh) shall lose it: and he that loseth his life(psuche,nephesh) for my sake shall find it. Psuche is used 105 times in the NT and again almost always in conection to man. So you can see by these two words nephesh and psuche that the living creature is man. Now as to the word ktisis lets look at it. It is used in Gods creative works , in the creation of the world and also of man. Ro.8:19-22 shows this very well For the earnest expectation of the creature(ktisis) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature(ktisis) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature(ktisis) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation(ktisis) groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. So when I used this ktisis in Mk.16:15, Col.1:15,2Cor.5:17 it is to show how man is to be made into the image of God. From a natural man into a spiritual man. So then you have the living creature (natural man ) God takes this natural man and places him in the garden to be made into His image. Now you meantion the creation of Adam and Eve ,I have on another thread posted my view on who they are. I’ll give a very quick run down here Adam was a prophesy of Jesus Christ and Eve was a prophesy of us in Christ. If you would like me to repost these views here I would be happy to explain myself further.All scripture taken from the KJV. In Christ Scott |
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3 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Morant61 | 46242 | ||
Greetings Scott! Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you! I've been busy the last few days. If I have understood you correctly, you are saying that there were two creations of man, one in Gen. 1:24 and one in Gen. 2:7. The problem is that Gen. 1:24 tells us what 'nephesh' refers to in v. 24 - "cattle, creeping things, and beasts'. There is no doubt that man is called a living 'nephesh' later, but in v. 24, 'nephesh' simply refers to animals. The context always determines the meaning of a word, especially when it is a word with such varied meanings as 'nephesh'. Verse 24 says let us make these creatures, then v. 24 records their creation. Then, v. 26 begins talking about the creation of 'man'. And 'man' is created in the image of God. By the way, did you hear this interpretation someplace else first or is it your own? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Sctt | 46272 | ||
Hi Tim I think you misunderstand what i’m saying. There is a natural account and a spiritual (prophetical) account of the creation of man. The natural man was created in Gen.1:24 he is the living creature. Then in verse 26-27 God says lets make man into our image , these two verses are a prophesy of Christ and us in Christ. Then God shows us how the natural man is to be made into His image , by making a garden and putting man into the garden to be trained up in obedience to Him. As I am always finding that I have to defend my views I would like to ask A couple of questions to those who hold to the traditional view of the creation account 1) If the traditional view is right and Adam was created in innocents how is this in Gods image? 2) if you say he was perfect how then did he sin. 3) 1Co.15:45 says Adam was made a living soul (creature) Does this sound like he was made in the image of god? 4) 1 Co.15:47 says the first man is of the earth earthy is this the image of God? is God earthy? 5)1Co.15:48 as is thr earthy, such are they also that are earthy. If you make the first man Adam into God image are you not then saying Gods image is earthy as we can see clearly here that the first Adam was of the earth? The Adam and Eve in v26-27 is a prophesy of Christ and us in Christ. Look in the same scriptures 1Co.15:45-48 and see that Christ is the only one who was made into the image of God and now because of His death and resurrection we to can be made into the image of God. In answer to your question did you hear this interpretation someplace else first or is it your own? It is what God has shown me. The traditional view held to many unanswered questions or questions that could not be answered except by conjecture ,so I took it before the Lord and this is what He has shown me. I to used to believe much the same way as what was traditionally tought but because of the questions some of which I have asked those who would defend the traditional view to answer I had to go back to the bible. May God give us all a seeing eye and a hearing ear.Amen |
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5 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Morant61 | 46281 | ||
Greetings Scott! Thanks for the clarification. I was having some difficulty following exactly what you were saying. Allow me to make a couple of comments and then I will address your questions my friend. Again, the biggest drawback to your interpretation is the context. 'Nephesh' is used six times in the first two chapters of Genesis. 1) In Gen. 1:20 and 1:21, it refers to moving creatures like the whale and birds. 2) In Gen. 1:24, it refers to the beasts of the earth - which are listed (cattle, creeping things, and beasts). 3) In Gen. 1:30, it refers to all animals. 4) In Gen. 2:7, man becomes a living 'soul' when God breathes live into him. 5) In Gen. 2:19, Adam names every animal. The context simply doesn't allow every instance of the word 'nephesh' to refer to man - natural or spiritual. Most of the verses above actually list the creatures being discussed. The word 'nephesh' has several primary meanings. It can refer to simple 'life'. It can refer to 'animals'. It can refer to 'desire or appetite'. It can also be used of a person. However, the context determines the meaning. Note that it is used of animals in other places as well. The creatures Noah is to bring onto the ark are called 'nephesh' in Gen. 9:2. Lev. 11:44-46 uses 'nephesh' when discussing what animals can and cannot be eaten. Lev. 24:18 uses it for an animal which is slain. Prov. 12:10 uses it in reference to animals. Your interpretation might work except for the simple fact that the verses list the animals being refered to. Now, onto your questions: 1) Scripture never explains what the ‘image of God is’, so one can only speculate. The best option seems to be the phrase used in Gen. 1:26 - "…Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion…". So, the ‘image of God’ may simply refer to Adam’s dominion over the rest of creation. 2) I never said he was perfect. He had freedom to choose whether to obey or disobey. 3), 4), and 5) 1 Cor. 15:35-58 deals with what our resurrected bodies will be like. Verse 48 makes the point that everyone on earth has a physical, just as Adam did. But, everyone in Heaven will have a spiritual body, just as Christ did after His resurrection. It is not teaching that there were two kinds of people created. 6) Adam and Eve. My friend, there is nothing in the passage about a prophecy. Verse 26 states God’s intention to create Adam and Eve. Verse 27 states that He did create them. The rest of the chapter lists the instructions given to Adam and Eve when they are placed in the Garden. Chapter two goes into even more detail about their creation and subsequent fall. There simply isn’t any support for this interpretation my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Sctt | 46352 | ||
Hi Tim You are right nephesh can relate to animals and man without Christ is a brute beast Jude10. So man without God is no better then an animal. Now you state that the scriptures never explain what the image of God is , but if you look 2 Co.4:4 it says In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Jesus Christ is the image of God. Also Col.1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: So you can see we do know what the image of God is. If you make the natural Adam to be in Gods image you also make him the firstborn of every creature. I thank you may have miss understood my questions let me refraze them. We know Jesus Christ is the image of God so lets look at the questions in this light. 1Co.15:45 1) Adam was made a living soul , Christ was made a quickening spirit the bible makes a difference between the natural man Adam and the spiritual man Christ, so who of these two are made in Gods image? v47 -49 2) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Here it says that we bear the image of the earthy is this the image of God? No! but we shall bear the image of the heavenly , the image of God. How can Adam be in Gods image when the bible says he was of the earth? who then was made in Gods image ? the only one is Jesus Christ and in Him we can now also be made in Gods image. You cannot be made in Gods image except through Christ so how then could Adam have been made into Gods image when Christ was yet to come? |
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7 | Are the Nephilim descendants of Adam? | Gen 6:4 | Morant61 | 46383 | ||
Greetings Scott! I think that you are mixing concepts! The term 'image', like most words, is used in several different ways. In Genesis, it seems to indicate similarity. For instance, in Gen. 5:3, it is used to indicate that Seth was like Adam. I think that this is all the 'image of God' means in Gen. 1:26-27 - that we are created with attributes similar to our Creator. What exactly those attributes are is where the debate comes in - free will? reason? ect...? The term 'image' is used in the New Testament in several ways as well. When applied to Christ, it means more than simply that Christ is like God, but that He is God. In 1 Cor. 15, Paul is simply distinguishing between the physical body that we all have now and the spiritual body that we will have. You said, "You cannot be made in Gods image except through Christ so how then could Adam have been made into Gods image when Christ was yet to come?" But, this is an assumption on your part since no verse actually says this. On the other hand, Gen. 1:26, 1:27, and 9:6 specifically say that man is created in the Image of God. And, 1 Cor. 11:7 also says that man is created in the Image of God. In short, I think that you are pushing a word meaning far beyond what can be justified by the context and drawing conclusions based upon that word which simply cannot be supported by the context. Well, I've got to get to bed! I'll catch you later my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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